New War In Israel / Gaza

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

@zazen This "massacare" list is fake and unreliable.

And how do I know that?

Because Israel surgical operations (~70% surgicality in average which is very good given hamas tactic) in the last 15 years are also displayed there as "massacare" 😂

Pure absurdity 🎠💈🎡🎪

True, the word massacre implies large scale killing which isn’t the case for all of these ‘incidents’ if that’s a better word. The point is there’s been attacks from both sides which debunks the October 7th happening out of nowhere claim. Operation protective edge in 2014 killed 1’400 civilians of which 500 were children compared to 33 children on October 7th (15 times more) I don’t mean to compare numbers in such a crude way but it’s to make the point that people can understand why Israel is angry after October 7th  but this understanding doesn’t come much from the Israeli side to why the Palestinians would be angry after Israeli operations.

 https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20160720_fatalities_in_gaza_conflict_2014

The civilian rate for the last 15 years differs between IDF and UN numbers. IDF have been shown to lie many times in the past and come out later to admit to things they’ve done. I’m not sure why many human rights groups or UN would lie - what could they all have against Israel. It’s not like all of them can be anti-Semitic or Hamas cooperatives. I can only go by what 3rd party groups say rather than trust either IDF or Hamas due to bias.

Here are numbers from UN for each operation the last 15 years:

2008 - 1’150 (60% civilian) / 3 Israeli civilians killed

2012 - 100 killed (60% civilian) / 4 Israeli civilians killed

2014 - 2’251 killed (65% civilian) / 6 Israeli civilians killed

2018 - 1 commander, 2 civilians killed (66%) , 0 Israeli civilians killed (thankfully not many deaths in this operation as it was a small covert one)

Regarding October 7th:

As all Israelis take part in the army and become citizen-reservists couldn’t it be that Israel can also claim that their soldiers who die are also civilians. Like the outpost near the border that Hamas attacked on October 7th - they were stationed there as guards but labelled civilians at the same time. This can be used almost as a human shield to portray any attack from Palestinians as a civilians attack. Likewise the settlement expansion can be used as a political human shield against a future Palestinian state.

Edited January 17 by zazen

[Nivsch]

🇾🇪 Hundreds of thousands been killed in Yemen but nobody cares not in the western world nor here.

🇸🇾 Bashar Al Assad killed more muslims then the sum of the people been killed in all of the conflicts between Israel and Muslims since 1947 but not the world nor here there is a caring that is even a hundredth of how we care when it comes to Israel palestine conflict when the casualties is less than 1% than the cases above.

What is the conclusion?

A bias against Israel.

😠 "But we hold Israel to higher standarts!"

But it doesn't answer the question why you still don't show your pain in link-trees or angry statements when people are killed in other Arab countries.

I thought that you just care about the people who are suffering or killed.

The answer is then:

You aren't interested in those poor people, not nearly as much as you are interested in Israel's situation and most likely not in her favor.

Edited January 17 by Nivsch

[kenway]

Brilliant journalism, filmed last month from one of Gaza's safe zones. Actual applaudable journalism.

The tragedy is that so much has changed since then. So much has changed in just 3 weeks.

 

 

 

 

[kenway]

 

Same journalist from the video posted above, but her latest update. Video taken today.

[kenway]

 

[Nivsch]

@kenway This is an uttetly demagogic post.

~40% of the casualties are hamas combatants.

Rate doesn't mean anything but the duration over a long time in the context of the intentions. Obviously when there are 130 hostages there the speed of the war will be maximized.

Edited January 17 by Nivsch

[kenway]

10 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@kenway This is an uttetly demagogic post.

~40% of the casualties are hamas combatants.

Rate doesn't mean anything but the duration over a long time in the context of the intentions. Obviously when there are 130 hostages there the speed of the war will be maximized.

A normal country doesn't rescue 130 hostages by invoking Hiroshima on to a population of 2.1 million, half of whom are children.

If you don't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

 

[Nivsch]

@kenway hamas is to blame in that we cornered to do our best to rescue our hostages, and the citizens casualities are still not intentional. Sorry to tell you. Exactly what you would do if your friends or family were held hostage.

Edited January 17 by Nivsch

[lina]

@Nivsch you guys (anyone still supporting whatever that's going on) are up for a rude awakening, whether you realize it now or in 50 years, but Israel's image and reputation has been broken for years to come and no amount of justification will fix that.

Edited January 17 by lina

[Nivsch]

@lina If a baby from your village was burned alive and some of your friends or family would taken hostages with a gun to their head every day for 100 days you would do exactly the same as Israel and chasing those murderers with the maximum pressure possible until you bring them back.

Edited January 17 by Nivsch

[Bobby_2021]

 

1 hour ago, kenway said:

A normal country doesn't rescue 130 hostages by invoking Hiroshima on to a population of 2.1 million, half of whom are children.

It's not just 130 hostages. The existence of hamas implies there would be thousands more hostages, rapes and kidnappings as much as Israel is willing to tolerate long into the future. At one point, they decide enough is enough.

Also those children are the reason hamas even exist. They need to operate in children's hospital so that they wouldn't be taken out. None of this would have happened it they came to fight upfront without being such cowards using children as human shields. 

Does that justify killing thousands of children? No. But there would be killings anyway. This would put an end to all this. There is no peaceful ending.

The tunnel networks should be destroyed and the city infrastructure rebuilt well once again for civilians and some international body setup to protect the rights of Palestinians. 

[kenway]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

citizens casualities are still not intentional

False.

Since 2006, it is standard practice for Israel to intentionally kill civilians including women and children. It has no moral issue in doing this because it regards the Palestinians as being an inferior people, and in any case the Palestinians represent a demographic threat to the stability of the Israeli-Nazi ethnostate.

The targetting of women and children in particular, along with schools, hospitals, refugee camps, journalists and aid workers, is designed primarily to overwhelm the population, with the hope of creating enough terror and dystopia to force the residents to leave voluntarily. Even before Hamas came to power in 2006, Israel would routinely fly fighter jets over Gaza City at 3 in the morning, breaking the sound barrier, thereby creating a sonic boom to terrorise the citizens into thinking they were under attack. A daily occurrence, making sleep practically impossible. The modern-day drones share a similar psychological benefit, along with the obvious benefit of surveillance and reconnaissance.

The present day genocide is merely the apogee, but with 85% of homes destroyed in 100 days, is designed to be terminal. The direct and intentional killing of civilians is an obvious component to the genocide, but more strategically serves as an extension of the previous psychological operations, this time forcing them to the south, close to the Philadelphi Route and the Egyptian border where they will eventually be flushed out to the desert on mass. 

[Nivsch]

@kenway You are inventing now a narrative based on fragments of cases in the periphery that do not have any connection to your story you are forcefully trying to compose.

I won't co-operate with this and I can't compete with imaginary ideas.

You are free to think whatever you want anyway.

Edited January 17 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

15 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

It's not just 130 hostages. The existence of hamas implies there would be thousands more hostages, rapes and kidnappings as much as Israel is willing to tolerate long into the future. At one point, they decide enough is enough.

Also those children are the reason hamas even exist. They need to operate in children's hospital so that they wouldn't be taken out. None of this would have happened it they came to fight upfront without being such cowards using children as human shields. 

Does that justify killing thousands of children? No. But there would be killings anyway. This would put an end to all this. There is no peaceful ending.

The tunnel networks should be destroyed and the city infrastructure rebuilt well once again for civilians and some international body setup to protect the rights of Palestinians. 

👍👍👍🔥

Edited January 17 by Nivsch

[kenway]

4 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I won't co-operate with this.

 

Fine, let's play a game instead.

Pretend that a well organised group of terrorists have kidnapped 130 civilians and are keeping them hostage somewhere in Tel Aviv.

Your job is to save the hostages.

Do you:-

A) Bomb the place to fuck, destroying 85% of Tel Aviv homes, killing over 25,000 Tel Aviv citizens, killing over 12,000 Tel Aviv children, and allowing the remainder of the Tel Aviv population to starve to death, meanwhile securing the release of zero hostages. 

or

B) Something else.

 

Take as much time as you need.

[Nivsch]

@kenway Since Tel Aviv, contrary to Gaza, is not a well-fortified terror base been well prepared with many traps in every single neighborhood for 18 years to the day my soldiers will invade to there, so there is no point in bombing it first, and a ground invasion will be enough in Tel Aviv.

Edited January 17 by Nivsch

[kenway]

[kenway]

 

Another good one from Owen Jones. 

Dismantling the propaganda of "human shields".

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, kenway said:

Fine, let's play a game instead.

Pretend that a well organised group of terrorists have kidnapped 130 civilians and are keeping them hostage somewhere in Tel Aviv.

Your job is to save the hostages.

Do you:-

A) Bomb the place to fuck, destroying 85% of Tel Aviv homes, killing over 25,000 Tel Aviv citizens, killing over 12,000 Tel Aviv children, and allowing the remainder of the Tel Aviv population to starve to death, meanwhile securing the release of zero hostages. 

Tel Aviv would have the military and take responsibility to take out the terrorists themselves without any outside intervention.

Israel army could not operate like that in Gaza. The local population will not cooperate. 

[kenway]

Yeah I made the mistake in forgetting that there's an answer for everything when it comes to Israeli-apologism.

It's a kind of convenient myopia that refuses to face the subtle moral nuance of the exercise - namely the racist and quasi-devilish disregard for a Palestinian life, compared to an Israeli life.