New War In Israel / Gaza

[kenway]

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/17/middleeast/israel-far-right-gaza-settler-movement-cmd-intl/index.html

Quote:-

“The general range goes from about 25% who want to re-establish permanent communities, Jewish Israeli communities in Gaza, to somewhere in the 40% range,” she told CNN of several polls conducted in November and December. “That is not a small portion of Israeli society.”

There is also an established track record in Israel of politicians pushing seemingly extremist ideas into mainstream conversation, and even into law. Netanyahu last year supported an effort started by a right-wing minister from his own Likud party to push through a law limiting the Supreme Court’s ability to scrutinize legislation, despite months of protests that roiled the nation. That proposal never had majority support, but the Knesset nonetheless passed it into law. The Supreme Court struck down the proposal earlier this month, saying it would deal a “severe and unprecedented blow to the core characteristics of the State of Israel as a democratic state.”

“Ideas that often seem very extreme at a certain phase in Israel’s history can over time become increasingly normalized very incrementally – sometimes a little bit below the radar, not exactly hidden, but not exactly advertised,” Scheindlin said of Israeli policymaking.

Diana Buttu, a Palestinian human rights lawyer who has served as an adviser to the Palestinian Authority, gives little credence to Netanyahu’s professed opposition to re-establishing settlements in Gaza.

“As much as Netanyahu may say that he’s not going to do it, he will ultimately,” she told CNN. “Because we as Palestinians have long learned that they end up finding some sort of excuse – you know, the coalition needs to stay together, whatever. And Palestinians always pay the price for it.”

[kenway]

 

Gaza: Latest updates and analysis from Nora-Barrows Friedman and Ali Abunimah.

Powerful insights and definitely worth a listen.

[zazen]

Great interview with Israels spokesman. A lot of push back on Israel’s strategy. 
 

 

Edited January 18, 2024 by zazen

[jaylimix]

@kenway I gave Remy Abdul a really nice poem and he blocked me.

[jaylimix]

Before FA :" So happy, no complains, life's good "

After FA :" 75 years, ethnic cleansing, genocide, open air prison, concentration camp, apartheid "

 

[zazen]

49 minutes ago, jaylimix said:

@kenway I gave Remy Abdul a really nice poem and he blocked me.

This you?

You’ve made good points before but how can people take you seriously when you’ve said you don’t care about dead Palestinian children?

This forum has a thread enthusiastically trying to understand the Nazi mind and an ultra-Zionist on it lol. Trippy.

Edited January 18, 2024 by zazen

[kenway]

@zazen Yeah I'm pretty sure that's him. I saw the posts a few weeks back.

I don't mind engaging with hardened Zionists, but I draw the line when it comes to school-shooter vibes.

[Karmadhi]

@kenway I do not think it is worth sending here posts about Israeli daily barbarism.

I think everyone here is fully aware of what is going on there and the pro Israelis here are fully in denial about Israeli's barbarism, they will not be convinced.

I am quite disappointed that people that follow Leo's work are so biased but I guess when you have been brainwashed all your life to believe your country is good, nothing will convince you. 

Edited January 18, 2024 by Karmadhi

[kenway]

4 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@kenway I do not think it is worth sending here posts about Israeli daily barbarism.

I think everyone here is fully aware of what is going on there and the pro Israelis here are fully in denial about Israeli's barbarism, they will not be convinced.

I am quite disappointed that people that follow Leo's work are so biased but I guess when you have been brainwashed all your life to believe your country is good, nothing will convince you. 

Disagree.

2 million people are currently on the precipice of extermination.

I spent my life up until the present moment fighting Nazis and I'm not going to stop now.

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Israel did more than 10 surgical intelligence operations in the last 18 years and it only lead to oct 7th.

What lead to Oct 7th was the decades-long Israeli policy of settlement and indefinite stalling of any kind of long-term peace deal that recognizes the rights and soveriegnty of Palestinians.

Quote

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

People invest their entire lives into building their homes. To just destroy it is a serious crime. Especially in areas where people are poor.

But if those homes were indeed used by hamas to their purposes? I read an article in which an Israel soldiers says that hamas is found in every or almost every building.

That's certainly not true.

And if my "used" you mean some Hamas guy slept in one apartment in a high-rise of 500 units, so what? That doesn't justify destroying the building.

Quote

I found it:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/irresponsibility-compounds-catastrophe-why-the-idfs-war-against-hamas-has-lost-momentum/

"The tactics caused devastation in northern Gaza, where Hamas had booby-trapped “every other house,” in the words of IDF officials."

Of course now they booby-trap houses in the middle of a warzone. So what? It's urban warfare.

Quote

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Also, don't forget, that building is someone's property and home. Are you okay if I bomb your mother's house when she is out shopping?

People invest their entire lives into building their homes. To just destroy it is a serious crime. Especially in areas where people are poor.

I understand you and respect that. But then again, are civil neighborhoods in Gaza really sterile and doesn't used as fortifications of hamas? I got the impression many of them are that way.

Are Israeli villages sterile? If one radical Zionist settler lives in a kibbutz, does that mean we can bomb the whole kibbutz now? There are many radical far-right Zionists sprinkled amidst the otherwise sensible Israeli population. Does that mean we can bomb high-rises in Tel Aviv?

Quote

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Many intelligent people also criticized the US invasion of Iraq and drone strikes, because it is an obvious misuse of force and leads to counter-productive results.

But I fear we don't have another choice right now because of the hostages.

I don't think Hamas would have any problem giving back the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire. So the hostages are not a driving factor in this war. The Israeli leaderships shows that their concern for the hostages is at best a second priority.

Edited January 18, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura Dont bother with these pro Israelis, they are totally brainwashed.

It is sad that followers of your work can justify devilry of this scale.

It just shows that if they justify these barbarisms even though Israelis have barely suffered under Palestine, imagine the hatred Palestinians must have towards Israelis where they been through 1000x worse for decades.

Can you blame someone celebrating on 7th of October when they have personally had their home stolen and had family members killed by Israelis?

I think most normal people would.

Meanwhile how most Israelis never have had their homes stolen or had family members killed by Palestinians?

Barely any

Yet they equally celebrate.

Shows how deep the hatred and brainwashing, is.

Edited January 18, 2024 by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

@Karmadhi If you are serious about my work then you should be aware that moralizing about this issue is beneath you.

Edited January 18, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you are serious about my work then you should be aware that moralizing about this issue is beneath you

Perhaps, but I would argue that calling out devilry is still a more evolved position than justifying devilry. 

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi I can take your what I think a sickingly twisted logic and say what you ARE in denial about and filter out:

1. The fact that Israel built a 1 Billion dollar smart fence out of the fantasy the thecnology will prevent wars.

2, Israel let Thousands of Gazans to work in its areas for years out of the hope it will make them moderate.

3. Israel did more than 10 careful operations with good surgicality lead to anything but worsen the situation in the long term.

4. Israelis soldiers are many of them boys in theirs 18-22 years that are also humen being with broad heart and worried mothers and familiy that are putting their lives in a serious risk in one of the most dangerous areas in the world. Thousands of them are doing that right now for more than 3 months straight.

5. The fact that almost no other military warned civilians so many time in many ways before their attacks.

6. The fact that a hostage suffering is X100 times harder than any other soldier or citizen from both sides. Imagine have a gun on your head for 100 days when you never know when the bullet will be shot on you and if it will. 130 of them. Now imagine this is one of your friends or family members.

7. The fact that Gaza kids are indoctrinate into killing and suicide from birth and already been damaged psychologically to a mental condition not less severe than any other mental disorders and need an urgent recovery if such a recovery is even possible, Million of them. Where was the world when that happened during all those years before the war? 

Edited January 18, 2024 by Nivsch

[kenway]

5 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

7. The fact that Gaza kids are indoctrinate into killing and suicide from birth and already been damaged psychologically to a mental condition not less severe than any other mental disorders and need an urgent recovery if such a recovery is possible, Million of them.

 

Question: How many Gaza kids have you actually ever met?

[Leo Gura]

Are Israeli kids not indoctrinated into killing?

You have to appreciate that Hamas IS the military of Palestine. It's sort of like saying, we will go into Israel and kill their whole military until there is none left. And then bombing every house in Israel where any military person has ever visited.

Good luck with that strategy.

Edited January 18, 2024 by Leo Gura

[kenway]

I also want to emphasise that many many Europeans and Americans visit both Gaza and the West Bank very frequently for humanitarian purposes. Similarly, through various anti-war / pro-unity demonstrations again in Europe and America, people have an opportunity to brush shoulders with real Palestinians all the time.

@Nivsch What is your experience with real Palestinians, and how many times have you visited either Gaza or the West Bank?

 

[Nivsch]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Are Israeli kids not indoctrinated into killing?

To kill civilians??

Never heard of that, and I have never educated to do such of thing. Sound crazy to me.

Our teachers talked with us about Israel establishment, Israel wars, the peace agreement we made and the hope there will be peace with syria and we will can even go to Damascus I remeber this well I was in 6th grade.

I dont know what you saw in the interivews of the far right wing people who are 1% to 5% at most.

Edited January 18, 2024 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

To kill civilians??

But then how do you explain so many civilians killed by the IDF? All just accidents? How convenient.

Edited January 18, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Joel3102]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

What lead to Oct 7th was the decades-long Israeli policy of settlement and indefinite stalling of any kind of long-term peace deal that recognizes the rights and soveriegnty of Palestinians.

 

The current government hasn’t been particularly interested in peace. But also, a two state solution was offered in 2000 and rejected by the Palestinians with no counteroffer and Israel got the second intifada instead. 
 

Then they withdraw from Gaza in 2005 and get nothing but rockets from an Islamist group. Of course that’s gonna shift Israel to the right.