Posted October 29, 2023 16 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said: It seems the USA and Israel are in love with each other. The USA has plenty of land. Why not just establish a new Jewish state there and then give back the Palestinians their land and homes? That seems fair Oh.... 🤔 So the occupation of the West Bank is not the real problem. But the occupation of Tel Aviv is. Thank you. Now I know that Israel is wrong because it exists. 🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 7 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Oh.... 🤔 So the occupation of the West Bank is not the real problem. But the occupation of Tel Aviv is. Thank you. Now I know that Israel is wrong because it exists. Why can't Israel exist in USA? Seems like a better idea since USA loves Israel and Palestinians hate them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) @Twentyfirst Because Jews have deep historical and emotional connection to this land from thousands of years ago. Edited October 29, 2023 by Nivsch 🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @Twentyfirst Because Jews have deep historical and emotional connection to this land from thousands of years ago. The Jews that lived there thousands of years ago are all dead. There are people still alive today that got their homes stolen. Give them their homes back. Thats fair Edited October 29, 2023 by Twentyfirst Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 @Twentyfirst Israelis are also alive and have their home from childhood. If you choose to speak so practically then do it fully. 🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 18 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @Twentyfirst Because Jews have deep historical and emotional connection to this land from thousands of years ago. It's crazy to have a connection with a land you've never been to, don't you think? a madness that leads to problems Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @Twentyfirst Israelis are also alive and have their home from childhood. If you choose to speak so practically then do it fully. Beggars can't be choosers. The Jews didn't have a land in the 1940s so that's why they took Palestine right? So they should go to USA because they would be more welcomed there. They shouldn't even be able to choose where they go they should just go where makes the most sense. They should be grateful for any land why do they get the benefit of choosing which land Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 3 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said: Beggars can't be choosers. The Jews didn't have a land in the 1940s so that's why they took Palestine right? So they should go to USA because they would be more welcomed there. They shouldn't even be able to choose where they go they should just go where makes the most sense. They should be grateful for any land why do they get the benefit of choosing which land Well but they are there now accept reality Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 The fact of being Jewish is something very strange. that obsession with maintaining identity, when identity is the stupidest thing a human can want to have. but the fact is that all nations have it, it's just that we Westerners, at least Europeans, are losing it and it seems very strange to see it in others. In Europe, identity is not having an identity, and truly, the space left free by having an identity can be occupied by much better things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) @Twentyfirst Your suggestion really can be seen as an innocent and that comes from good intention. But in the other hand it is clear that you are emotionally very biased towards the palestinians and don't take Israelis emotions seriously. Edited October 29, 2023 by Nivsch 🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said: The fact of being Jewish is something very strange. that obsession with maintaining identity, when identity is the stupidest thing a human can want to have. but the fact is that all nations have it, it's just that we Westerners, at least Europeans, are losing it and it seems very strange to see it in others. In Europe, identity is not having an identity, and truly, the space left free by having an identity can be occupied by much better things. You are underestimate the intelligence of identity even national to one's healthy emotional development. Yes, the identity that YOU yourself will create independently of your culture is the most important one, but everyone has to start from something and want to feel part of something bigger than them that they contribute to and have influence on. Edited October 29, 2023 by Nivsch 🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 6 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @Twentyfirst Your suggestion really can be seen as an innocent and that comes from good intention. But in the other hand it is clear that you are emotionally very biased towards the palestinians and don't take Israelis emotions seriously. How is it clear that I am biased towards Palestinians? Show me where I was biased. What is a better solution than Israel carving out a state out of the USA? USA has amazing stuff to offer and like I said the USA loves Israel. I can't think of another solution that serves both parties Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: Yes, the identity that YOU yourself will create independently of your culture is the most important one, but everyone has to start from something and want to feel part of something bigger than them that they contribute to and have influence on. The Jews have a very strong identity since have been persecuting very violently and being hated for millennia. It is something very strange when the Jews were peaceful. The reason for the hatred was to do good business and become rich and favor other Jews over the people of the country I'd say Nowadays, in the era of business, no one would hate them for that, they could live anywhere, and it is precisely now that they want to have a land in the middle of people who hate them. strange right? Edited October 29, 2023 by Breakingthewall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 10 minutes ago, Nabd said: Hamas with a single attack managed to drop Israel from stage orange/green to stage red-blue. The security minister is a violent Nazi who wants war. This has been a security failure that has caused the war. Israel enters the red phase because its leaders are red. they have chosen them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Twentyfirst said: It seems the USA and Israel are in love with each other. The USA has plenty of land. Why not just establish a new Jewish state there and then give back the Palestinians their land and homes? That seems fair I would love to do the swap, the other way let’s build Palestine in United States and leave Israel alone. Or built Palestine in Saudi Arabia that has a lot of land, mostly uninhabited and speaking on behalf of Israel we will be more than happy to compensate for all the properties. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 @Gennadiy1981 Why would the Palestinans leave? Wasn't the issue that it was the Jewish people that needed a state? The Palestinians can't be bought Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said: It's crazy to have a connection with a land you've never been to, don't you think? a madness that leads to problems Then you don’t know anything about Judaism. First of all, we were kicked out of Israel, 2000 years ago by Roman‘s, and second of all for three times a day, every single day we prayed to return to Zion. For every holiday, we added additional prayers to return to Jerusalem. So you can see we do not have ties it was something embedded in us. In addition, many Jews did come to settle throughout middle ages and especially in the beginning of 20th Century wave before the word Palestinian even existed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 16 minutes ago, Nabd said: I think Israel will not be able to force Gazans out of Israel/Palestine so Netanyahu will probably look to attack Syria and Lebanon because there are no governments there. What options are there when gaza is destroyed ? Perhaps relocating them to another territory and bribing them with important aid would be the best option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said: Then you don’t know anything about Judaism. First of all, we were kicked out of Israel, 2000 years ago by Roman‘s, and second of all for three times a day, every single day we prayed to return to Zion. For every holiday, we added additional prayers to return to Jerusalem. So you can see we do not have ties it was something embedded in us. In addition, many Jews did come to settle throughout middle ages and especially in the beginning of 20th Century wave before the word Palestinian even existed. So whats the need for kicking Palestinians out of their homes? If it was really belonging to you why would you have to kick out innocents from their homes? Sounds sketchy af to be honest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said: Then you don’t know anything about Judaism. First of all, we were kicked out of Israel, 2000 years ago by Roman‘s Yes, I know all that, but after 2000 years you get used to living the way you are living without longing for a dry desert that you have never seen, don't you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
