One-sided videos about Chinese collapse

[rnd]

 

 

Seemingly smart and trustworthy guy.  However, what all of the videos such as this one about Chinese collapse, which is "about to happen this time with 106% probability", miss or rather ignore is the fact that China may not only have some problems, but it also has had successes.

Which of the two have had a greater impact?

 

Why won't you guys mention that Chinese RMB has doubled its global market share as the trades in USD dollar diminishes? Still small share, though.

More and more countries call for ditching dollar switching to either RMB or local currencies.

Why won't you mention that China has archived a great success in the Middle East with Saudi Arabia and Iran? How about the Huawei's chip breakthrough? How about the fact that UnionPay has overtaken Visa in global debit card transactions?  China is in BRICS which has recently overtaken G7 in terms of GDP.

Besides, the problems in the Chinese economy not only arise, but get resolved too. Such videos won't mention this.

 

 

Why won't the successes of China be mentioned then? Because these aren't the things that the listeners of a channel would like to hear about. Without taking them into account, though, an author will be creating videos about immininent  collapse of China till the end of his life, beliving in its own narrative, yet a collapse may never occur.

Edited September 30, 2023 by rnd

[sholomar]

Pretty good documentary on Xi... he is a victim of his childhood and upbringing. It made him who he is. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DKIQpu4hhQ

(Age Restricted for some reason)

Otherwise I tend to watch these two...

https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaFactChasers

I don't believe in authoritarian rule so naturally I don't support the Chinese Communist Party. It's a 1984 dystopian society. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by sholomar

[SeaMonster]

1 hour ago, rnd said:

Why won't the successes of China be mentioned then?

Presumably because no matter how many successes you have, if your failures are critical enough you will go down.

Now, I don't know whether he is right or wrong, and whether China's failures are critical enough, but successes don't matter in such circumstances.  The Soviet Union had all kinds of successes up until the moment it collapsed as well.  It's rare that EVERYTHING goes wrong for a power before it collapses.

Edited September 30, 2023 by SeaMonster

[rnd]

On 30/9/2023 at 0:49 PM, SeaMonster said:

Presumably because no matter how many successes you have, if your failures are critical enough you will go down.

Yes. The questions then will be: a) is this applicable to China? To what extent? b) why not instead expect a collapse of the US and Europe which would happen way faster than the one of China could?

Edited October 1, 2023 by rnd

[rnd]

On 30/9/2023 at 11:45 AM, sholomar said:

Pretty good documentary on Xi... he is a victim of his childhood and upbringing. It made him who he is. 

You may not believe this, but every single person on the planet, including you, is the way he or she is because of a way he was raised in the past, and what he expienced, in some way or another. Even your cat or dog.

 

 

On 30/9/2023 at 11:45 AM, sholomar said:

I don't believe in authoritarian rule so naturally I don't support the Chinese Communist Party. It's a 1984 dystopian society. 

You may believe in Big Foot and Godzilla. And who gives a shit what you believe in?

Moreover, this "dystopian 1984 society" has overtaken USA in terms of technology, economy and alies, and a grap is growing.

Edited October 1, 2023 by rnd

[rnd]

On 30/9/2023 at 11:45 AM, sholomar said:

https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaFactChasers

Nooooo, thank you.... I'm all set!
I like to watch and read shit about the US and Europe better, from the russian and chinese media.
 

[Leo Gura]

Yeah, I don't see China collapsing so easily.

[How to be wise]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, I don't see China collapsing so easily.

You know what countries do when they’re in trouble: they lash out. Buckle up.

[Recursoinominado]

This is propaganda talking point is very old.

People have been saying China will collapse for several decades now and no sign of that.

[BlueOak]

Bubbles always burst. Their housing bubble is a huge bubble. Rather than stop it, or deflate it slowly, they are still building it up.

Did 2008 collapse any country? No. It certainly left a fair share of problems, especially trust in the government.  Let's say the magnitude is two or three times as bad as 2008 was for the UK. There hasn't been another labor government since that happened in the UK. I know there are lots of reasons for that, but this was a big one of them in years gone by.

What happens when/if they can't change their leader? Where does the anger go? Probably at Taiwan and a world war.

[rnd]

2 hours ago, BlueOak said:

What happens when/if they can't change their leader? Where does the anger go? Probably at Taiwan and a world war.

You've made an assumption that they are, in China, all hostages to the their leader - Xi. They dream of replacing him, every single day. And everyone is quetly angry. Some are, of course, as in any other country, as there's no leader whom 100% agree with.
 

What's your assumption based on, though, other than on  US/Europe sources? And how do you know it's true? To what extent?



Also check the approval rating of Biden which has fallen below 50%. "Where will the anger of the over half of US go then?"  Perhaps to waging proxy wars around the world? And  at China - whilst pretending to protect Taiwan? Why aren't you preoccupied about this instead of being preoccupied about Xi?

Edited October 3, 2023 by rnd

[BlueOak]

@rnd

I made an assumption you can't change him. I made an assumption that he's consolidated power to such a degree that the common people in China have no way at all of effecting change in their government. If I'm wrong by all means tell me how you do this? What's my assumption based on, 40+ years of life experience and more sources than I could possibly ever list here.

Do I think I can, in a Western country, in any way affect the leadership in the UK for the betterment of the people? Not much. This is not an anti-China position, it's what i think of almost all forms of government. Especially authoritarian states where power is wielded absolutely, and the lengths a dictator will go to, to hold onto power is far beyond that of an average democratic leader. The democratic leader retires, gets a nice paycheck, benefits, and also probably an easy-speaking job or some cushy position made for him. The authoritarian leader probably gets killed by his opponents, killed in a coup, arrested in some foreign trade, or goes into hiding. I also know war is a very well-established method of a dictator holding onto power, and most other people know that too now.

Now if I had a following, some money, a large platform to speak on, I made im my career in politics, or enough of my positions were shared with a large percentage of the population enough to whip up attention, I could certainly impact elections in the UK. I do so in very minor ways by analysis and have sometimes seen channels pick it up, but that's likely because enough others came to the same conclusion in most cases. I mean the odds of someone seeing my posts or thoughts among tens of thousands of others and deciding to act on them is relatively very low, unless it's shared by enough others and in the controlling interests of the media/channel or forum.

The US has fought plenty of proxy wars, and yes they've used it in elections. It's not necessary to cling to power in the US as i've explained. Taiwan is required for the trade routes, to stop China from dominating the nearby countries' territorial waters, microchips to stop China from controlling all technology, and to halt China's expansionist policy. At the moment BRICS is a grave threat to all democracies because it has positioned itself as a competitor and is trying to undermine them internally. I understand their reasoning, under-representation, and getting a raw deal from Western nations for centuries. However 1) It has created two competing power blocks, waging war, funding extremist groups, starting coups, spying, stealing technology, and proxy wars. 2) They are acting no better at all than the people they are competing with, they are using all the same old tricks, and exploiting weaker countries around them or just taking over foreign interests to expand expand expand.

So when you ask why am I focused on China? Because its the biggest threat i've ever seen in my lifetime.

Edited October 3, 2023 by BlueOak

[rnd]

Quote

Taiwan is required for the trade routes, to stop China from dominating the nearby countries' territorial waters, microchips to stop China from controlling all technology, and to halt China's expansionist policy.

How are those territorial watters off the China's coast of any business to USA and Europe?

Who gave USA/Europe the right to try to stop other country - China? Who? Are they the ultimate world's judges?

And why would then they be unhappy, or scared of, that China, along with Russia and other countries, in return trys to stop USA or Europe? Action - reaction.

 

Quote

At the moment BRICS is a grave threat to all democracies because it has positioned itself as a competitor and is trying to undermine them internally

You couldn't have made this more dramatic. The black, evil, devil powers - BRICS - have risen and are about to defeat the good, just guys - US and Europe.

Are they the good guys or rather whose who like to call themselves so?


Well, the BRICS countries can make exactly the same argument against the US and Europe -- the countries who always try to intefere in the affairs of others, putting them above the rules, and wage proxy or even direct wars around the word.

One should become willing to notice all the shit that US and Europe have been doing to other countries for decades, and the double standards they've been hiding behind. They're evil countries.

Edited October 3, 2023 by rnd

[BlueOak]

14 hours ago, rnd said:

How are those territorial watters off the China's coast of any business to USA and Europe?

Who gave USA/Europe the right to try to stop other country - China? Who? Are they the ultimate world's judges?

And why would then they be unhappy, or scared of, that China, along with Russia and other countries, in return trys to stop USA or Europe? Action - reaction.

 

You couldn't have made this more dramatic. The black, evil, devil powers - BRICS - have risen and are about to defeat the good, just guys - US and Europe.

Are they the good guys or rather whose who like to call themselves so?


Well, the BRICS countries can make exactly the same argument against the US and Europe -- the countries who always try to intefere in the affairs of others, putting them above the rules, and wage proxy or even direct wars around the word.

One should become willing to notice all the shit that US and Europe have been doing to other countries for decades, and the double standards they've been hiding behind. They're evil countries.

Let's get a few blocks out of the way. - There are no 'good guys' in terms of countries, they are all self-interested, Generally, those taking aggressive actions are more dangerous than those on the defensive. You missed where I said I understand why BRICS are doing this. I even said you'd been on the receiving end for centuries.

It's of interest for the reasons i've stated. I'll do it again and add a few.

On Taiwan: Trillions of dollars of trade goes through there, and needs to be protected somehow. China will have a stranglehold on all technology through microchips if they take Taiwan, and nobody is letting that happen while China has positioned itself as a competitor and rival.

There are a lot of other countries that due to international law have things like fishing rights in the sea that China has decided to steal, they use it to feed their people. They have a radius around their country for their own protection and their own use.  China unilaterally decided to just steal it because they wanted to, and this causes problems. Like the many border disputes that China keeps pushing. They've got to learn to work with people rather than try to roll over them. Say what you want about the west, if often makes deals.

*Taiwan also opens up China to invade further, at the moment its a way to limit China's expansion. Countries like Japan are rightful concerned that you keep pushing your naval capabilities further outward, and this aggression gets people to copy you like North Korea. They fire missiles over Japan and South Korea, copying China's behavior of flying jets over Taiwan repeatedly. It's like how central Asia is copying Russia's expansion, fighting border conflicts.

BRICS members are aggressively expanding through war, debt traps, coups, stealing technology, spying, interfering in elections, and making a competing economic block. You can't do all these things and then complain when you get a response. It's absurd for you to expect otherwise. Don't compete with this competing economic/military block that we have designed to compete with you! What?

All you have in response is: Well those people are bad, they did something bad back then, so we'll be bad. Well don't expect me to pat you on the back for aggressive expansion, expect to get the response you are getting all the way up to skirmish or world war if China continues its current aggressive course.

BRICS do exactly what everyone else did/does then claim they are somehow better or 'good', or moral. It's such nonsense. You can decide to work with people or against them. China and BRICS has chosen against them. So here we are on the verge of a much larger war. @rnd

Edited October 4, 2023 by BlueOak

[rnd]

4 hours ago, BlueOak said:

On Taiwan: Trillions of dollars of trade goes through there, and needs to be protected somehow. China will have a stranglehold on all technology through microchips if they take Taiwan, and nobody is letting that happen while China has positioned itself as a competitor and rival.

"nobody is letting that happen" -- who is that nobody precisely?
"China has positioned itself as a competitor and rival." -- Yes. Competitor and rival to... Europe and US. Right?

But aren't US and Europe for equality, democrasy, equal chance for everyone in the world, not interfering in the matters of other countries? And If they were, they'd then happelly compete with China.

Haven't you just admitted that US and Europe don't want for Taiwan to get taken over by China because if it was this would've undermined their -- US and Europe  -- stability and dominance globally thus putting them info fare competition? That is, because of their selfish reasons. And not because of democrasy and human rights. @BlueOak

Edited October 4, 2023 by rnd

[rnd]

Quote

BRICS members are aggressively expanding through war,

BRICS memberS? through war? agressively? Show me a proof, for all the 3 points.  And then - tell why you don't like this.

Take into account NATO, and civians and countries bombed by them. Explain me in what ways NATO deems itself peaceful.



Tell me what US now is doing in Syria? Selling Syrian oil and sponsoring the local terrorists. Occupiying the country. Interesting, huh? Russia is there too, because it was invited by the president Assad. Russia also saved Syria a few years back. Who invited the US there? Nobody. Let alone selling Syrian oil.

Edited October 4, 2023 by rnd

[rnd]

4 hours ago, BlueOak said:

if China continues its current aggressive course.

You somehow like and support the fact that US and Europe have been on their aggresive course for decades, but you don't like the fact China is on its course nowadays.

If other words, you oppose it when China, Russia, Iran.... do to US and Europe what they've been doing to them for decades.

Bizzare, isn't it?

 

Quote

BRICS do exactly what everyone else did/does then claim they are somehow better or 'good', or moral. It's such nonsense.

Yes. Why is it nonsense? Why wouldn't have US and Europe called their own behaviour nonsense when they were terrorising other countries?

For instance: if you pee in my coffee and then I in return break your nose, you'd  go "What? It's such a nonsense! You are the one who must stop first!!! Even though I peed in your coffee."

Edited October 4, 2023 by rnd

[BlueOak]

1 hour ago, rnd said:

"nobody is letting that happen" -- who is that nobody precisely?
"China has positioned itself as a competitor and rival." -- Yes. Competitor and rival to... Europe and US. Right?

But aren't US and Europe for equality, democrasy, equal chance for everyone in the world, not interfering in the matters of other countries? And If they were, they'd then happelly compete with China.

Haven't you just admitted that US and Europe don't want for Taiwan to taken over because if it was this would undermine their -- US and Europe  -- stability and dominance globally? So because of their selfish reasons. And not because of democrasy and human rights.

Who? The countries protecting their own interests.

Yes, exactly a competitor. We are competing with China and BRICS, this is what two competing global powers means. War, violence, spying, stealing, assassinations, coups, skirmishes etc. BRICS are creating a fractured world. Do they have good reasons of their own for this, yes.  It takes away the benefits of globalization and specialisation back to an older era of warfare, sabotage, spying etc. Everyone will feel this over the next ten years as their quality of life declines.

I don't know why you are insisting i'm making a moral case and I keep telling you the exact opposite. Is it because when you put aside moral arguments we are saying the same thing?

Aren't the US and Europe for Democracy? Yes to different degrees, if you have a look you'll find the level of democracy in each country differs on a scale. Equality? Some lean towards this like Scandinavian countries, and many lean towards individualism and supporting the rich. Like the UK or the USA. It's a mix.

Equal chance for everyone in the world? No countries are self-interested. All of them. There is not one single country on the planet that is making their policy with anyone but their own interests first.

Admitted what? That countries are self-interested? Yes from the very first post, this is not a shocking thing, that's just the reality. When we remove all the moralizing and appearances. It can be that leaders realize that cooperation is beneficial, but they are still looking at their own countries first.

 

1 hour ago, rnd said:

BRICS memberS? through war? agressively? Show me a proof, for all the 3 points.  And then - tell why you don't like this.

Tell me what US now is doing in Syria? Selling Syrian oil and sponsoring the local terrorists. Interesting, huh? Russia is there too, because it was invited by the president Assad and Russia also saved Syria a few years back.

 

Russia saved what? A chemical wasteland where they'd eradicated those that opposed them. If you consider war 'saving' you are back to moralizing again, playing your 'good' side against the 'evil side'. It was several competing interests fighting over a country, that's part of what BRICS competition brings. You want me to say why I don't like this? For the refugee crisis, the extreme loss of life, the immigrant crisis, the destabilization of the region, and the further wars this brings. The middle east is already on the fast track to collapse from water shortage, war doesn't help that in anyway. *America fought a lot of wars there*. Exactly. I also don't like the fact autocratic figures are messing around in our elections and countries, trying to overthrow democracies by funding extremists and anti-democratic political candidates. The militarization of surrounding countries in warzones, the increased nuclear proliferation, terrorism, and threats to end the world are not positive things either.

War breeds more war. Violence begets violence. *Insert your but another country did this too.* EXACTLY. Its a cycle, that feeds into itself, until a very large war happens and people cannot fight anymore.

Show you proof of what, please be specific?
Russia's 8 wars to rebuild the USSR? Here i'll give you the list. If you can't find them i'll list the 8 from former parts of the USSR they either now control or have favorable proxy governments in place. They've repeatedly said they want to rebuild the USSR and shown maps of their claims all the war to central Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

China swallowing up Tibet, East Turkestan, Hong Kong, the surrounding seas of other countries, threatening Taiwan? Do you want to see where these countries were on the map before you invaded them?

 

Quote

Take into account NATO, and civilians and countries bombed by them. Explain me in what ways NATO deems itself peaceful.
You somehow like and support the fact that US and Europe have been on their aggresive course for decades, but you don't like the fact China is on its course nowadays.
If other words, you oppose it when China, Russia, Iran.... do to US and Europe what they've been doing to them for decades.

Bizzare, isn't it?

 

 

You are being willfully ignorant in an attempt to put words into my mouth. Despite the fact I keep saying over and over and over the opposite.

NO ONE HERE IS THE GOOD GUY. All countries are self-interested. 

You gaslight all the time. Nowhere did I say I like war. In fact, i've said the exact opposite ALL THE TIME. Why do you think I bother with these posts complaining about violence and aggression? Because I like violence and aggression? Or because I don't like it? 

The only bizarre thing is you want to make this about morals. When there are no morals involved whatsoever.

Edited October 4, 2023 by BlueOak

[rnd]

37 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

Russia's 8 wars to rebuild the USSR? Here i'll give you the list. If you can't find them i'll list the 8 from former parts of the USSR they either now control or have favorable proxy governments in place. They've repeatedly said they want to rebuild the USSR and shown maps of their claims all the war to central Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

So  easy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wars_involving_NATO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_intervention_in_the_Syrian_civil_war

US and Europe want to rebuild themselves, continue their world dominance, therefore they "make their aggresive moves".

Should I mention the recent praise of a n@zi veteran in the Canadian parliament also?

Edited October 4, 2023 by rnd

[rnd]

All in all, what is it you're preoccupied with? @BlueOak

What is it you want to save the world from? Or whom? And what does all this have to do with China, Russia and BRICS? Why not save it from the US?

Edited October 4, 2023 by rnd