John Mearsheimer views of the Russia/Ukraine conflict.

[Danioover9000]

   Very interesting perspective from this guy, given his other lines of development here:

   So when I hear a disingenuous take from Destiny, a completely biased like this:

   I cringe. His position is too entrenched in sunk cost fallacy for his world views, Americanism, deep stage orange capitalism/determinism to shallow stage green values, cognitive development stunted at merely hyper logic and ADD/ADHD like mind with little moral development, personality mostly consists of sociopathy and some psychopathy, with a limited ego development, life experiences, traumas, and other lines of development in his life and societal background regressions, and his own mind having self biases and preferences from his ideological upbringing, all that projected onto John's position, it's hard to not see how Destiny is operating from a tier 1 cognition, getting triggered and defending his fragile ego.

   Carefully observe the similarities and differences in quality between the two perspectives here, and see how much systems thinking was going on there. This is a test of your open mindedness and willingness to learn from a different view, and try to see this non judgmentally. Try and see Destiny's angle and John Mearsheimer's angle as part of a complex matrix of nuanced distortions about this situation between two countries. Compare and contrast fairly, and notice despite which one is superior or inferior, notice that the world will continue in whatever direction, even a direction unexpected by all sides involved.

[Danioover9000]

   Damn, you really can't argue against facts. This John Mearsheimer guy really did he's research and speaks clearly and logically:

   And the speakers for the NATO side are the ones making less sense in this discussion and can't calmly argue back.

   Now I really don't like Destiny for slandering and defaming this guy in his stream, it's so criminal to do so. Guy that proclaims he'll talk to anyone, yet refuses to talk to John or watch a video requested by a viewer fully and give commentary, and makes bold slanderous claims about John. I loss all respect for Destiny he really is deluded. The scary thought is this guy is raising in popularity and doing these podcast rounds and being the 'political guy' to talk to, but this sociopath blue cockatrice really isn't worth it. Shows that just charisma, persuasion, influencing, manipulation and convincing only doesn't lead to growth or good moral character, it just leads to more convincing lies told to others and to the self.

[Danioover9000]

   Another interesting perspective similar to John Mearsheimer's own:

 

[Leo Gura]

No doubt in the long-term view the US played a big role provoking this war. The issue is that the US feels entitled to expand itself as far as it wants. This is part of the US arrogance, exceptionalism, and bias.

But Putin is also not innocent in how we conducts this war. Putin has no respect for Ukrainian sovereignty. If he could he would incorporate Ukraine into Russia.

The real cause of this war was that Ukraine started allying itself with the West, slowly infected with Western culture, and there was no way Putin was going to sit by and let that happen. Putin believes Ukraine belongs to the East. And he does not respect Ukraine's decision to side with the West culturally. So in a sense it's a literal culture war.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Leo Gura

[martins name]

What I find problematic about Mearsheimer is that he has no vision of justice

[StarStruck]

International politics is a huge chess board. You expand where you can expand otherwise your opponents will. If Russia or China had the power the US has they would do much more unethical stuff to solidify their position. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by StarStruck

[How to be wise]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The real cause of this war was that Ukraine started allying itself with the West, slowly infected with Western culture, and there was no way Putin was going to sit by and let that happen. Putin believes Ukraine belongs to the East. And he does not respect Ukraine's decision to side with the West culturally. So in a sense it's a literal culture war.

Or rather, Ukraine was growing into Orange, and Putin wanted to keep it Blue. Surely that’s a better way of seeing it?

[Jodistrict]

Ask yourself what the United States would do in the same position.   If Russia and China formed a mutual defense organization similar to NATO and then invited Mexico to join, what would the United States do?   The US almost went to nuclear war over the Cuban Missile Crisis.  This is a geopolitical issue.  I don’t believe it is cultural.   This is a dangerous issue that could lead to a nuclear war, which is why it would be good to have Robert Kennedy, Jr. as president.  He is the only politician that has suggested a plan to end this war.  We are being led by mad men.   

[Danioover9000]

@martins name

3 hours ago, martins name said:

What I find problematic about Mearsheimer is that he has no vision of justice

   Do you expect every perspective to have a vision of justice? Especially when we have two superpowers on the collective level, with many groups pulling the strings, vying for cultural control of Ukraine, you expect a professor to have a vision of justice?

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No doubt in the long-term view the US played a big role provoking this war. The issue is that the US feels entitled to expand itself as far as it wants. This is part of the US arrogance, exceptionalism, and bias.

But Putin is also not innocent in how we conducts this war. Putin has no respect for Ukrainian sovereignty. If he could he would incorporate Ukraine into Russia.

The real cause of this war was that Ukraine started allying itself with the West, slowly infected with Western culture, and there was no way Putin was going to sit by and let that happen. Putin believes Ukraine belongs to the East. And he does not respect Ukraine's decision to side with the West culturally. So in a sense it's a literal culture war.

   I agree, it's a literal culture war, it's not easy to solve when the power players, and the cultures as a whole have this collective ego that seeks to expand as far as it wants.

   I also don't see an easy solution, the western perspectives view this in an over simplistic way, some even think that deposing or killing off Putin would solve this Iraq war style, but again if Putin is a derivative of the Kremlin, and the people in the Kremlin are a derivative of the Russian culture, then it's ultimately the will of the Russian culture that wants Ukraine, or at least the eastern Russian majority part of Ukraine, meanwhile Ukraine wants to be it's own identity and have it's own sovereignty, even though the western culture is infecting it with it's ideas, and the western countries especially the USA does have it's own agendas, arrogance, exceptionalism and bias. Then there's the China issue still at large, and the USA finding itself involved in this Ukraine and Russia conflict is difficult.

   This multipolar tug of war is a difficult one to resolve.

[Danioover9000]

@martins name

3 hours ago, martins name said:

What I find problematic about Mearsheimer is that he has no vision of justice

   Just remember, if you expect and apply a vision of justice to John Mearsheimer, apply that standard to Destiny and those similar to him too.

[Danioover9000]

@StarStruck

3 hours ago, StarStruck said:

International politics is a huge chess board. You expand where you can expand otherwise your opponents will. If Russia or China had the power the US has they would do much more unethical stuff to solidify their position. 

   Not even a giant 4d chess board, it's a Chinese Go/Baduk board, with multiple parties vying for power and control.

[Danioover9000]

@How to be wise

39 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Or rather, Ukraine was growing into Orange, and Putin wanted to keep it Blue. Surely that’s a better way of seeing it?

   Not necessarily, it's too simplistic. Actually the Russian culture wants Ukraine to be at stage blue and belong to it, not let Ukraine be a sovereign country with western values and western cultural ideas.

[Danioover9000]

@Jodistrict

11 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

Ask yourself what the United States would do in the same position.   If Russia and China formed a mutual defense organization similar to NATO and then invited Mexico to join, what would the United States do?   The US almost went to nuclear war over the Cuban Missile Crisis.  This is a geopolitical issue.  I don’t believe it is cultural.   This is a dangerous issue that could lead to a nuclear war, which is why it would be good to have Robert Kennedy, Jr. as president.  He is the only politician that has suggested a plan to end this war.  We are being led by mad men.   

   I partly agree. The USA still hasn't learnt it's lesson with the aftermath of the Iraq war.

[How to be wise]

3 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@How to be wise

 western values and western cultural ideas.

Basically, stage Orange.

[Danioover9000]

   I also like this video, he sounds a little bit like a systems thinker here with his use of diad dipolar to unipolar and multipolar, sounds similar to multipolar traps concept, I like this take:

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

@How to be wise

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

Basically, stage Orange.

   Mostly stage orange capitalism, with some stage blue like the southern states and the blue bible belt, and stage green socialists/progressives/liberal cities and states.

[Jodistrict]

Here is another Mearsheimer interview.   The Duran Report is a good independent source of information on the war that is outside the Western corporate media propaganda.

 

 

[martins name]

On 9/9/2023 at 2:10 PM, Danioover9000 said:

Just remember, if you expect and apply a vision of justice to John Mearsheimer, apply that standard to Destiny and those similar to him too.

Destiny and his ilk have a vision of justice and it's that nations should be able to determine their own alliances. Military intervention to stop it is unjust. Murder, theft, rape and subjugation is wrong and unjust. 

I do agree with Mearsheimer that getting into the war was a strategic mistake. We should have let Russia dominate Ukraine knowing the the disaster that would happen if we didn't. But that doesn't make the war just. Therefore, now that we are in it, we should enforce that this kind of behavior is unacceptable in Europe. 

No war would have been the best outcome if we could change the past.
A Russian win is the worst outcome.
A Ukrainian win is the second-worst outcome.
No war is no longer an option, so we should go with the second-worst option.

Speaking as a Swede.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

@Leo Gura You made an excellent point. While I disagree with you that the cause of this war was cultural, there is no doubt that Ukraine's cultural shift to the West played a huge role in this.

My family is Russian and they almost all support Russia in this war, especially those who still live in Russia. For justification reasons, sure, they will site NATO, they will site Ukrainian Neo-Nazis, but one justification for this war in which they will sometimes site is culture. 

Foreign observers may notice that a lot of the Russian soldiers are carrying Soviet flags. People might wonder 'why are they waving the flag, and wearing flag patches of a country which no longer exists'? This is actually intentionally to signify old unity, back when Ukrainians and Russians were a brotherly people, allied in the Cold War against the degenerate West. But now Ukraine has been thoroughly corrupted by Western NGO's (their perspective, not mine).

As for the culture stuff, I was surprised at how many times the LGBT community was mentioned as a justification for this war.

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-troops-state-tv-pep-talk-satanism-lgbtq-attacks-1775008

There seems to be plenty of people who genuinely think Ukraine deserved to be attacked because it is becoming more Western, Democratic, and LGBT friendly. They view this as an actual genuine existential threat to their way of life and culture.

There's also a shifting cultural change with young people, not related to the LGBT; less reverence for The Great Patriotic War, being less religious, and more. But this especially applies to LGBT stuff, They well view it, not as a genuine civil rights movement, but a sort of Western ''plot'' which was deliberately designed by America, the EU (European Union) and Satanists to destroy Russia. 

Not just the Government believes this, but I have as a Russian person (both ethnically but also a legal citizen and passport carrier) met simple ordinary Russian people who very well think like this.