stop chasing after passion

[Intraplanetary]

This is short but so good. I'm always trying to look for some exceptional feelings to get me going with stuff when in fact we have to face the reality of boredom and tediousness when doing some work.

 

[Michael569]

37 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

when in fact we have to face the reality of boredom and tediousness when doing some work.

well said ^ ^ 

[r0ckyreed]

I think that both sides are talking over each other. 

I disagree slightly because he is saying that after 10 years we will find passion and that is not a good gamble.

If you are not passionate about piano, you ain’t gonna practice crap unless something external forces you.

But on the other hand, you need a passion/purpose to get started, but you cannot expect yourself to be passionate during every training session. You need to go through challenge and pain to get good. But you should still be going towards what you are interested in mastering.

I could play the piano and get really good at it if I wanted to. But I have no desire to. I don’t even think it’s worth my time. 

That is it right there in what I just said. You have to follow what you find most worth your time. If you are not having fun, then stop. You aren’t actually going to get that much better if you have to force yourself. That is where that guy is wrong. You can climb the wrong ladder all you want. I don’t want to climb a ladder for 10 years only realizing that mastering piano isn’t what I’m passionate about. 

The guy equates expertise with developing passion. That is not necessarily true. It starts first with passion. You have to want to get good at something. That’s what you are missing.

I got a short clip for you.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Intraplanetary]

42 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

If you are not passionate about piano, you ain’t gonna practice crap unless something external forces you.

If you are not passionate about piano, you ain’t gonna practice crap unless something external forces you.

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the expertise. To be good at something and mastering a skill makes the job or whatever you do enjoyable. 

So for example, a person could entirely skip all this search for passion and just dedicate and commit to acquiring some skill/becoming the expert; and this will bring the satisfaction, not the feeling of passion.

The issue is that there is misconception that people must find passion, find their purpose, etc and it usually won't last too long because passion is not grounding, it comes and goes, you can't rely on it. 

I agree that you just can't pick any work or artistic skill, it has to interest you of course, but it shouldn't take too long to choose mastering something whereas chasing after passion and life purpose can get you in overthinking and forever searching when, as I said, the real deep satisfaction lies in becoming really good at something. And that is very different than feeling passion.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Intraplanetary

[Intraplanetary]

43 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

The guy equates expertise with developing passion. That is not necessarily true. It starts first with passion. You have to want to get good at something. That’s what you are missing.

I have been contemplating on this for a while and from my own experience I can say that, no, it does not start with passion, at least not for me.

When I think about where I want to be in the future, I think about the expertise in a particular field. When I imagine myself there, the feeling is calm, reserved, grounded, mature. This what gives me satisfaction. If there are some burst of passion here and there that is great, it spices the whole thing up, but passion itself is not the starting point for me.

Just recently I was giving passion more credit and kind of a lil bit forced the idea on other people too, but now I know better. And I can't argue to anyone who says that for them passion is what matters the most because we're so different and different things work for different people. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Intraplanetary

[Intraplanetary]

53 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

You have to follow what you find most worth your time. If you are not having fun, then stop.

Sometimes I think nothing at all is worth my time and I wished I could just do nothing all day but then I remember I need to pay my bills so I get up and do the job which feels far from having fun.

In general, life sucks to be honest, and most things that we do in life are boring and mundane and not easy but we still need to do them.

Also acquiring skills and experience in a dream job is not fun, mostly it's hard work, but it's worth it because it gives satisfaction and at some point it may start being fun too.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Intraplanetary

[gettoefl]

passion is what gets you up to put on your running shoes when it's dark and everyone else is still in bed

perspiration is what keeps your logging the miles when all around are calling it a day

passion is knowing your gift

perspiration is honing your gift

[Intraplanetary]

30 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

passion is what gets you up to put on your running shoes when it's dark and everyone else is still in bed

Not in my experience. When I start going to a gym, I have to literally drag myself there, I'm not happy to do it, I don't like it, I don't want it, It doesn't feel passionate. I just do it because I know it'll be good for me. 

When I push through the difficulty and get into a routine to exercise, then it becomes easy and fun and some days I'm even excited to get there real early. 

Another scenario where passion didn't play a role in getting something done but it got fun and exciting after it has been adapted and repeated to become familiar.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Intraplanetary

[zurew]

Passion != motivation.

Finding your passion is just finding a path where you can strive hard and express yourself and your given abilities really well.

Part of finding your passion means trying out a lot of different things to see what clicks and what doesn't - and through that process you also go through a kind of character development and self-exploration. 

if you could know where you could strive extremely well at, the answer is that you obviously would like to know the area or the place. Given the answer to that question, we might as well try our very best to find that. That does not mean never comitting to anything , it means committing a few month or maybe a year to something and then explore more and more until you learn enough about yourself that you find out where you could excel at your very best.

Imagine this: You are born with exceptionally good art abilities, but you tell yourself "fuck it , I am going to become a lawyer", then you commit yourself to spend thousands of hours into becoming a lawyer and your never really discover your true potential what you could have become and you also provide nowhere near as much value to humanity as you would have with your art abilities.

 

That all being said, sure sometimes you can bruteforce yourself and become good at something that you were literally horrible at, however the path choosing is never random in my opinion (especially in cases ,where people become exceptionally good at something). Often times these people feel a really deep and hard reason to do something. That really deep or hard reason could be a philosophical one, a psychological one or simply a talent one where you recognize you have almost an obligation to use your talent to help humanity and not waste your time doing anything else.

A psychological reason could be this: for instance: your mother died because of a heart disease and now you have a really really strong drive to help humanity in that area, because you had a direct traumatic experience related to it, and you recognize how important that area really is. 

 

So the idea is to first find or to recognize a really good reason why you want to start doing something and then why you want to become exceptionally good at it (again that could be finding your talent, or a philosophical reason or a psychological one or simply pragmatic one [where you deliberately try to become a useful part of society].
 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Intraplanetary

5 hours ago, Intraplanetary said:

This is short but so good. I'm always trying to look for some exceptional feelings to get me going with stuff when in fact we have to face the reality of boredom and tediousness when doing some work.

 

   Why do you think it's so good to not follow your passions in this short video, and trust this person in giving a vision to you over your heart and ability to create a vision for your own life? Are you always trying to look for exceptional feelings, even when working or doing hobbies, or even now as you're reading my post?

   Why is it a fact that 'we' have to face boredom and tediousness? When you've said 'we', are you referring more to yourself instead of me or the readers because how do you know I'm as bored or tedious feelings as you have? and why appeal to band wagon and inclusivity here when you're the only one feeling the boredom and tediousness and venerating Robert Green here? Are all these conditioned only when doing some work, like you can only feel bored or tedious when doing work but not hobbies or games or other recreational activities?  

[Intraplanetary]

You put a passion on the pedestal, it's overrated, in my opinion. You give these exceptional examples of a dying mother and a layer who supposedly missed a life opportunity for choosing law career over becoming an artist.

I'm not denying the fact that we do things because we find them interesting; and in my opinion that is more than enough to commit and get going, go get bored, get tedious, get frustrated. It'll be difficult. Stop looking for a feeling of passion and excitement and fun. Boring is what you need. BORING IS GOLD. It's such an important part of the development just to embrace this part of reality without trying to make things more passionate, more exciting.

Life may take you to surprising paths and destinations so it's important to be flexible and open minded along the way. But stop chasing after this special feeling of passion and instead pick on something that is available and do what is necessary to develop a skill, become good at it, enjoy at performing it and allow the possibilities to come in. 

Let me add this. That lawyer person you gave an example who chose law career instead of becoming a talented artist and he assumingly missed his life potential because of that. Now flip the script and imagine that the same person one day asked himself, what world needs more an exceptional artist or an exceptional lawyer? Would I contribute to the world more by becoming an artist or a lawyer? The same person would come with the answer as becoming an exceptional lawyer would do more good in real life situations than becoming an artist. Passion can be self-centered, and becoming someone that the world needs is more selfless and I would guess may be even more fulfilling. You see, it goes both ways.

As you can see, passion may work for some, being of a service and doing what it necessary may be more fulfilling and inspiring for others, purely mastering a skills may give the most satisfaction for others.

Passion is overrated, it's not so important, however, for whoever it works, good.

[Danioover9000]

@Intraplanetary

5 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

You put a passion on the pedestal, it's overrated, in my opinion. You give these exceptional examples of a dying mother and a layer who supposedly missed a life opportunity for choosing law career over becoming an artist.

I'm not denying the fact that we do things because we find them interesting; and in my opinion that is more than enough to commit and get going, go get bored, get tedious, get frustrated. It'll be difficult. Stop looking for a feeling of passion and excitement and fun. Boring is what you need. BORING IS GOLD. It's such an important part of the development just to embrace this part of reality without trying to make things more passionate, more exciting.

Life may take you to surprising paths and destinations so it's important to be flexible and open minded along the way. But stop chasing after this special feeling of passion and instead pick on something that is available and do what is necessary to develop a skill, become good at it, enjoy at performing it and allow the possibilities to come in. 

Let me add this. That lawyer person you gave an example who chose law career instead of becoming a talented artist and he assumingly missed his life potential because of that. Now flip the script and imagine that the same person one day asked himself, what world needs more an exceptional artist or an exceptional lawyer? Would I contribute to the world more by becoming an artist or a lawyer? The same person would come with the answer as becoming an exceptional lawyer would do more good in real life situations than becoming an artist. Passion can be self-centered, and becoming someone that the world needs is more selfless and I would guess may be even more fulfilling. You see, it goes both ways.

As you can see, passion may work for some, being of a service and doing what it necessary may be more fulfilling and inspiring for others, purely mastering a skills may give the most satisfaction for others.

Passion is overrated, it's not so important, however, for whoever it works, good.

   Says the ego mind? Again don't trust that ego mind too much, nor in another person like Robert Green who you have no idea of and limited experiences with, just seems like a lot of appeals to pathos and ethos and some logos. Robert Green is both right and wrong about passion, his assumptions of finding passion is bad is bad advice itself, but in regards to dedicating time and deliberate practice he's partly right, but partly wrong in his starting assumptions. most human beings still need to explore and find out more of what they're passionate about, learn more about themselves before over committing to some field.

   Are you replying to this user?:

@zurew

36 minutes ago, zurew said:

Passion != motivation.

Finding your passion is just finding a path where you can strive hard and express yourself and your given abilities really well.

Part of finding your passion means trying out a lot of different things to see what clicks and what doesn't - and through that process you also go through a kind of character development and self-exploration. 

if you could know where you could strive extremely well at, the answer is that you obviously would like to know the area or the place. Given the answer to that question, we might as well try our very best to find that. That does not mean never comitting to anything , it means committing a few month or maybe a year to something and then explore more and more until you learn enough about yourself that you find out where you could excel at your very best.

Imagine this: You are born with exceptionally good art abilities, but you tell yourself "fuck it , I am going to become a lawyer", then you commit yourself to spend thousands of hours into becoming a lawyer and your never really discover your true potential what you could have become and you also provide nowhere near as much value to humanity as you would have with your art abilities.

 

That all being said, sure sometimes you can bruteforce yourself and become good at something that you were literally horrible at, however the path choosing is never random in my opinion (especially in cases ,where people become exceptionally good at something). Often times these people feel a really deep and hard reason to do something. That really deep or hard reason could be a philosophical one, a psychological one or simply a talent one where you recognize you have almost an obligation to use your talent to help humanity and not waste your time doing anything else.

A psychological reason could be this: for instance: your mother died because of a heart disease and now you have a really really strong drive to help humanity in that area, because you had a direct traumatic experience related to it, and you recognize how important that area really is. 

 

So the idea is to first find or to recognize a really good reason why you want to start doing something and then why you want to become exceptionally good at it (again that could be finding your talent, or a philosophical reason or a psychological one or simply pragmatic one [where you deliberately try to become a useful part of society].
 

 

   Also, it's PASSION /=/ MOTIVATION, not passion != motivation, unless it's semantically and syntax similar?

[Intraplanetary]

8 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Again don't trust that ego mind too much, nor in another person like Robert Green

just to clarify - it doesn't matter who said the words in the video. The message is only important to which I agree that passion is overrated; I already shared different points of view and alternatives to that of searching for passion. 

 

[Ajax]

I agree with @Danioover9000 .

I think Robert Greene missed the rocketship on this one.

 

Passion is something you create with your emotions. They give life to your actions, motivate you, power your dreams. Emotions give life. Passion is important. Dreams spring from passion and nobody can be truly happy without a dream in their heart.

To me passion is magical and nobody can tell me any different.

That being said, if you don't put the work in... If you are not disciplined and diligent and consistent and committed, and conscious you will 100% fail. These are character traits. 

Passion is a type of energy, not a character traits. Passion should never be overlooked. A man with little passion is like a robot.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Ajax

[zurew]

17 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

You put a passion on the pedestal

I don't, thats why I gave many other examples about how you can become good at something without a reason for 'talent'. I just said, you have to find a good reason before you start doing anything, because if you literally have no reason to do that particular thing over another, then you efforts and willpower probably won't last long. Read back you will see that I included (philosophical or psychological or pragmatic) reasons as well.

Also here is an important point: You and the guy in the video make it look like as if going after your passion is easy - no it isn't. Thats one of the reasons why you see so many people abandoning their dream careers, because it is extremely hard to be courageous and authetic enough to really go after it and in some cases there is no good market for it , therefore you need find ways to fit your work in to the market or to literally create a market for your work.

24 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

The same person would come with the answer as becoming an exceptional lawyer would do more good in real life situations than becoming an artist.

I don't think its that easy to recognize which one is more important comapred to the other one + you can always ask yourself the question of 'how could I use my skills to be the best service of others?'

15 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

As you can see, passion may work for some, being of a service and doing what it necessary may be more fulfilling and inspiring for others, purely mastering a skills may give the most satisfaction for others.

Doing or finding your passion doesn't exclude you from the ability to be service of others or from the ability to master a skill, in fact it might make you better at contributing to others.

Also, I still think, that it is worth trying to explore yourself by trying out many different things before you really hop into someting and spend thousands of time doing that job/activity.

 

[Princess Arabia]

Interesting thread. I love talking about passion. Something to consider: What if you were "assigned" (not as in some master, but by your higher self perse) a mission to complete while here on earth in the form of passion. What if you, and only you, can fulfill this in your own unique way, like a fingerprint. What if your contribution to society was to honor your passion, the reason behind your passion. I believe everything in life has a purpose, not necessarily in the Absolute sense where there's a purpose for life itself because life itself is its own purpose. Hard to really relate this, but you guys are intelligent enough to read between the lines of what I'm trying to say here. Not that I actually believe this, just a thought that popped up while reading the thread. Thoughts?

Edited June 27, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I agree with @Danioover9000 .

I think Robert Greene missed the rocketship on this one.

 

Passion is something you create with your emotions. They give life to your actions, motivate you, power your dreams. Emotions give life. Passion is important. Dreams spring from passion and nobody can be truly happy without a dream in their heart.

To me passion is magical and nobody can tell me any different.

That being said, if you don't put the work in... If you are not disciplined and diligent and consistent and committed, and conscious you will 100% fail. These are character traits. 

Passion is a type of energy, not a character traits. Passion should never be overlooked. A man with little passion is like a robot.

 

 

Agree

[Intraplanetary]

11 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Passion is something you create with your emotions.

And so it comes and goes and people often jump from one passion to another never really committing nor mastering any skill or field.

Emotions are important but managing your emotions and rising above your emotions is as important.

 

[Princess Arabia]

31 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

just to clarify - it doesn't matter who said the words in the video. The message is only important to which I agree that passion is overrated; I already shared different points of view and alternatives to that of searching for passion. 

 

Do you consider yourself a logical thinker?. Like putting more emphasis on logic and reason over intuition, emotion and feeling. Just asking out of curiosity. Most females are the latter but sometimes the're exceptions and maybe that's what's influencing your reasoning patterns. Neither right nor wrong, just is. Or are you basing what you're saying because of personal experience which could still be using logic and reasoning. Just curious.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

And so it comes and goes and people often jump from one passion to another never really committing nor mastering any skill or field.

Emotions are important but managing your emotions and rising above your emotions is as important.

 

Thats true too. Sounds like me...haha