My position on incest

[Realms of Wonder]

You are being courageous for facing this, however difficult, and however much resistance shows up, you're on a path to Love yourself deeper and deeper. 

 

Also, your mom seems to be surprisingly understanding of this situation, glad you have that resource on this journey.

[trenton]

@Realms of Wonder thank you for the support.

I feel more brave because of the exercise, which I have now done twice. This time my mind started flowing through a lot of little things. I even recognized how my ignorance and unconsciousness lead me to making this thread.

I have dissolved the resistance I felt before. I have been hyper vigilant all of my life, thinking I was doing good. I have been scared of every selfish impulse. Part of this may have to do with autism and hyper sensitivity to strong emotions especially as a child. I was terrified and sad a lot to the point that I hid in my room most of my life. The process of forgiving this child makes me cry.

[Danioover9000]

   Great you're doing some inner work to get this sorted.

   What I think of these incest fantasies, as long as there's consent, real attraction, and 9/10 or 10/10 it's fine. In real life, probably feels immoral to me anyways due to my biases but sex fantasies are okay. If possible, PUA and cold approach and go date somehow, sort that sex life out if possible. Meantime it's fapping, sex dolls and body pillows with maybe candles, and maybe porn times with plenty of meditating and contemplating how powerful the mind is with generating this stuff, and how's it possible to abstract into fantasies of hyper beautiful people fucking.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Danioover9000

[trenton]

I feel like I no longer stand by my initial position on incest.

I now feel like it is silly to be making all of these arguments to begin with. I look at the arguments and wonder what's the point. I don't see what it would accomplish if society accepted all of this. They could just look at all of these arguments and say so what.

[Bobby_2021]

6 hours ago, trenton said:

I feel like I no longer stand by my initial position on incest.

I now feel like it is silly to be making all of these arguments to begin with. I look at the arguments and wonder what's the point. I don't see what it would accomplish if society accepted all of this. They could just look at all of these arguments and say so what.

That's definitely progress. 

I think peace comes from the fact that you realise that banging or not banging your sister doesn't make a lot of difference.

No matter how demonic these desires may seem a lot of people have these but they won't express this since it's a taboo. You would be surprised to see that a lot of mothers secretly want to fuck their sons for whatever thet couldn't do with their husbands. These stories are real whatever your opinions on it may be.

It's about internally making peace with your desires. There is nothing bad about desiring anything. You don't even control it for the most part. You simply accept who you are as itself.

With all that said, I would advice you to not make any advancements on your sister or cousins.

[trenton]

I see no better place to document the transformation that forgiveness has allowed.

All my life, I have been over protective. I was afraid and wanted to avoid trauma and being hurt. This over protection is what caused most of the suffering in my life because I was afraid and trying to avoid suffering. The only way for me to experience love would be to take off my armor and be vulnerable, but this was the last thing I wanted to do.

I was protective in my family life when I avoided them by staying in my room. It didn't help that my older sister and mother had anger issues, nor did it help that there were episodes of domestic violence between mom and step dad who were drug addicts that stole my money. I was afraid of making any small mistake which would set them off, so I hid.

I was protective in my school life. I was afraid of the other kids who were bullying me. In response, I isolated myself from the other kids, but this backfired. I became an easy target because I was alone. I needed to double check everything to make sure the other kids didn't steal from me or write fa* on my jacket. Instead of keeping my backpack by my side, I moved to keeping it under my feet.

This over protection in school was reinforced through the sexually inappropriate behaviors of other kids. After what happened with my sister, I became very closed to sex and judgemental of sex, not because of sex itself, but because of the punishment associated with it. I saw the other kids as fools as they constantly got themselves in trouble with humping other kids, drawing penises on the walls, and other childish behaviors. I used to laugh with the other kids about all of this myself, but I had changed because I was afraid of punishment.

Sexual harassment didn't help. There was one girl who grabbed my penis twice and another girl who followed me around trying to get me to have an orgy. I was immediately uncomfortable with any girl attempting to make me look or feel slutty. Deep down I wanted a relationship in which I could express my authentic feelings, but it seemed to me that it was not possible. I stayed closed.

I have been protective in my hyper vigilance when it came to any selfish thought or impulse. I judged myself very harshly and didn't want to hurt others. This included the possibility of using autism as an excuse to get away with selfishness which scared me. It included making people uncomfortable with my weird behaviors no matter how hard I tried to be good. All of my judgements paralyzed me as I feared doing anything remotely wrong.

This led to all kinds of "what if I do this?" The fear of not being able to control myself made me more protective as I created fears which didn't exist. I am prone to catastrophizing and coming up with scenarios that lead to suicidal thoughts. This includes the paralysis that I feel when attempting to approach a woman. I see millions of things that could go wrong because I don't trust myself to be a good person.

My defense from strong negative emotions include repression, dissociation, and isolation. I have constantly wanted to remain separate from others as I lived in my own little bubble trying to be safe. In fact my over protection led to suicidal thoughts. I therefore tried to protect myself from over protection by being more protective for fear that I would kill myself, or cause harm to others. In truth the solution was to drop my armor, which was the last thing I wanted to do. I was ignorant and did not understand how to cope with all of my fears as I did my best to avoid trauma. This over protection is what traumatized me the most.

In a way the possibility of suicide was comforting. I constantly felt like I was not in control of my life no matter how hard I tried. The ability to kill myself and eliminate all the suffering I didn't understand helped me to feel easier about my life. Suicidal thoughts are therefore a defense mechanism for strong negative emotions such as fear, shame, guilt, self hatred and others.

There is a visualization I like to do in exercising forgiveness. I visualize the child who is acting over protective because he is afraid. He is ignorant and is struggling to cope with fear. Deep down he wants love, but struggles to love himself. He has several issues with depression and anxiety as he tries to protect himself from trauma while doing his best to be a good person. Although he tries to be a good person, he cannot help but fail and he blames himself harshly. He is afraid of his own selfishness and is unable to love himself, even though he tries to. all he wants is safety. I see the weakness and vulnerability in this child. I give him a hug as I tell him it's okay to be scared. I'm not mad at you. You are only trying to be good and you deserve to be loved. It makes me cry when I do this visualization, including now. This is the child who needs to be forgiven.

Part of me still feels the need to be protective because I'm scared. I notice the tension in my back and shoulders dissolving, but then coming back. I don't want to be hurt, but in doing so I block out love. This makes me feel conflicted and unsure as to whether or not I should stop being protective because of my doubts and fears. I might need to ease into being less protective.

[trenton]

I wish I could put a million likes on this video.

 

[tadpole]

God bless you brother!

I have had the same feelings as you towards my sister. I never acted them out, but I felt guilty about it and I felt like something is "wrong with me" because of it.

One day I simply told my sister about it. I told her that I feel sexually attracted to her and that I wanted to tell her because society thinks there is something "wrong" with feeling like that but I didn't consciously chose to feel like that.

It was not a big deal at all to her (we have always had a very good relationship).

What was interesting to me was, after the fact of telling her about it, the sexual desire towards her kind of faded a lot. Thinking that I am not allowed to feel that way made the desire way stronger than it would have naturally been.

However, it is important to note, that there is nothing wrong with such a desire. You didn't chose it it's a gift from God.

[RendHeaven]

@trenton Dude you're awesome

[trenton]

3 hours ago, tadpole said:

However, it is important to note, that there is nothing wrong with such a desire. You didn't chose it it's a gift from God.

@tadpole

Coincidentally, I have been contemplating this recently as well. All my life I have been struggling for control over my thoughts and feelings, but our control over life is very limited and it hurts as we try to control life.

My thoughts and feelings happen to me. I never chose to be a human who experiences thoughts and feelings. Judging thoughts and feelings in such a way that it attacks your sense of self love and self worth is very damaging because as humans we over estimate the control we have over life. As we allow our thoughts and feelings to flow, they happen to us and they change.

You don't let go of thoughts, thoughts let go of you. Likewise, self reflection is happening to me as insights come in and my feelings continue to change.

[trenton]

There is more progress being made.

With my previous identity being torn down with all of the stirred up trauma, I started having a jumbled mind. My previous mask had fallen apart because it was sweeping all of these emotions into my body. I felt a lot of confusion and frustration as I wanted to recreate a cohesive identity. I didn't see a need to be attached to all these theories and intellectual positions anymore. I didn't see the point in holding onto these mental constructions.

I remembered who I was as a child before all of this trauma and over protective attitude. I wasn't always like this. For example, people with autism have the stereotype of being introverts, but the reality is that many of them are more naturally extroverted which is suppressed due to bullying. Likewise, I used to be much more open as a child. I used to be good at remembering people's names.

As I became more withdrawn and afraid of the outer world, I started getting worse at remembering names. I didn't care as much for others felt because I was dissociated and living in my head. At first I thought had more control over my thoughts and feelings, but in fact this illusion fell apart as well. My feelings worsened as I stayed hidden for fear of being hurt.

I am starting to open up more with other people again. I am getting better at remembering names again like Anthony, Randy, and Margie. It helps to know that I'm not alone as I reconnect to the world which I had come to fear.

I have been struggling with various dysfunctions in my body and mind. The tension in my body is linked to various self judgements. As my self judgements ease and the suicidal thoughts subside, so too will the tension in my body. It often led to twitching, strange noises, and saying things like "I hate myself" out loud. I know these judgements to not be true because I am fundamentally good. At the moment, my body and mind is partially in this old attitude still. I am focusing on my body and mind as I release the painful tension throughout both.

These strange outbursts continued as I went to a movie with my brother and sisters. I was struggling with inner bodily tension and various thought patterns. My family often looks at me like something is wrong when I suddenly make these outbursts of gibberish. They usually brush it off and overlook it. I know them to be rooted in self judgement, and I hope to free myself in This process.

Beneath the tension there is an authentic inner joy. This inner joy is love.

[trenton]

Update: this may be bad.

I continued doing Leo's forgiveness exercise. It was never what happened with my sister that actually traumatized me, but rather mom's reaction to it. I was terrified, weak, crying uncontrollably, and blaming myself. It never occurred to me to blame mom for hurting me because I put all the blame on myself and I have been doing this for many situations throughout my life. It is hard to forgive other people when I blame myself for so much of what happened throughout life.

Forgiveness is still happening when I let go of self blame. Deep down I know this self blame not to be true, yet I give the ego undue credit anyway. I would be a very peaceful and happy human being If I let go of self blame entirely, or at least if I held onto it to a far lesser degree than I did. I am letting go little by little.

This started to become less about forgiveness and more about processing intense fear. I have been suffering from many psychological conditions. Ever since the incident, I have been hyper vigilant and self conscious. I experience a lot of harsh self judgement often to the point of suicidal thoughts, which although I never act on, sometimes they are more intense. I am attached to this hyper vigilance and self consciousness because I am afraid of what will happen if I loosen up.

This mental state translates into anxiety and sleeping issues. I often get shock waves running up my lower spine all the way up to my head and sometimes it is painful. I often lay awake for hours unable to sleep. I am taking pills for anxiety that seem to be helping and the forgiveness exercise helps as well. I also have been diagnosed with depression and I still have several symptoms of mild or moderate depression.

I have been mentally scarred by the incident for years and my mind comes back to it frequently. I am afraid of acting on various thoughts and impulses. Repressing these thoughts and impulses often leads to muscle spasms and talking in gibberish. My family notices it when I do it, but they don't say anything. These muscle spasms are rooted in harsh self judgement when I don't trust myself to be a good person.

This issue is becoming less about forgiveness. I am actually showing symptoms of ptsd. I feel like I need to discuss this with a therapist. The traumatic event may have actually been that bad. I have been living in constant suffering, self judgement, hyper vigilance, and a tense body for years. It is like living in my own habitual punishment. no matter how much spirituality, emotional mastery, and intellectual exercises I try, it never seems to be enough.

I have been trying my best to heal all of this and to love myself for years, but it was always hard. I might actually need more help.

[Israfil]

2 hours ago, trenton said:

Update: this may be bad.

I continued doing Leo's forgiveness exercise. It was never what happened with my sister that actually traumatized me, but rather mom's reaction to it. I was terrified, weak, crying uncontrollably, and blaming myself. It never occurred to me to blame mom for hurting me because I put all the blame on myself and I have been doing this for many situations throughout my life. It is hard to forgive other people when I blame myself for so much of what happened throughout life.

Forgiveness is still happening when I let go of self blame. Deep down I know this self blame not to be true, yet I give the ego undue credit anyway. I would be a very peaceful and happy human being If I let go of self blame entirely, or at least if I held onto it to a far lesser degree than I did. I am letting go little by little.

This started to become less about forgiveness and more about processing intense fear. I have been suffering from many psychological conditions. Ever since the incident, I have been hyper vigilant and self conscious. I experience a lot of harsh self judgement often to the point of suicidal thoughts, which although I never act on, sometimes they are more intense. I am attached to this hyper vigilance and self consciousness because I am afraid of what will happen if I loosen up.

This mental state translates into anxiety and sleeping issues. I often get shock waves running up my lower spine all the way up to my head and sometimes it is painful. I often lay awake for hours unable to sleep. I am taking pills for anxiety that seem to be helping and the forgiveness exercise helps as well. I also have been diagnosed with depression and I still have several symptoms of mild or moderate depression.

I have been mentally scarred by the incident for years and my mind comes back to it frequently. I am afraid of acting on various thoughts and impulses. Repressing these thoughts and impulses often leads to muscle spasms and talking in gibberish. My family notices it when I do it, but they don't say anything. These muscle spasms are rooted in harsh self judgement when I don't trust myself to be a good person.

This issue is becoming less about forgiveness. I am actually showing symptoms of ptsd. I feel like I need to discuss this with a therapist. The traumatic event may have actually been that bad. I have been living in constant suffering, self judgement, hyper vigilance, and a tense body for years. It is like living in my own habitual punishment. no matter how much spirituality, emotional mastery, and intellectual exercises I try, it never seems to be enough.

I have been trying my best to heal all of this and to love myself for years, but it was always hard. I might actually need more help.

I would seek professional help.

Just know that you are deeply loved by this universe. You came here to experience life and its ups and downs and are welcome to do so openly and completely. I am rooting for you and hope you find love and light by the end of this ordeal. The same love and light that composes you and every other thing that comes to your senses. 

[trenton]

@Israfil Thank you for your support.

I just feel so mad and anxious. Logic says "I was just an ignorant child who didn't know better." The human psyche simply does not function through logic alone. I have been struggling with this all my life and I am ready to open to my family on this issue. Part of me still has a lot of suicidal thoughts and a sense of hopelessness because I have been struggling with all of these emotional issues for my entire life to no avail. Of course this was combined with other things like domestic violence, a dysfunctional family, autism, bullying, OCD, drug addiction in my family, and other things. My relationships with other people just felt hollow throughout my life no matter how much they said they loved me.

I even turned to spirituality in an attempt to stop this suffering. Everything I have done in life has been the seeking of love, but love is hard. Effort and willpower alone will never be enough to stop this. At least one thing I can revise is that I don't hate myself, but rather I hate my situation from which I am trying to escape and constantly failing.

I also need to discuss cptsd with my family, but I know it will start a fight and I am afraid to tell them. We all suffer from some form of this complex trauma because of our dysfunctional family. I can intellectualize all I want in a effort to minimize my trauma, but deep down it never works. This is all just so frustrating,

I am working on getting professional help. I am making progress.

Edited April 21, 2023 by trenton