Very Paradoxical

[Breakingthewall]

22 hours ago, Moksha said:

The conditioned mind is like a block of rough-hewn obsidian which is too dense to allow light to shine through. In the spiritual workshop it is carefully sculpted into a beautiful pane of translucent glass, and becomes a lucid medium for the Mind.

I don’t call it an achievement, because the mind cannot sculpt itself on the relative plane of its existence. It requires the vast wisdom and creativity of the Artist for the transformation to occur. Sometimes it is a careful process of spiritual practice, through which the mind is gradually shaped. Other times, as in my case, it is a cataclysmic event, which is the culmination and eventual collapse of suffering. Although initially the mind may believe it is carving itself, when the light finally floods through the Mind is realized to have been preparing its own expression all along.

 

I guess it's a matter of detachment above all

[Moksha]

49 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I guess it's a matter of detachment above all

Detaching from fear and desire is the pathway to the end of suffering. I agree with @Leo Gura that this is not necessarily the same as God-realization, although it certainly paves the way. The reverse is also true: God-realization facilitates dissolving attachments. They are seen to be futile striving for happiness outside of ourselves, when our true nature is already infinitely abundant.

[Breakingthewall]

43 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Detaching from fear and desire is the pathway to the end of suffering. I agree with @Leo Gura that this is not necessarily the same as God-realization, although it certainly paves the way. The reverse is also true: God-realization facilitates dissolving attachments. They are seen to be futile striving for happiness outside of ourselves, when our true nature is already infinitely abundant.

 

The realization of the absolute that Leo speaks of is something that is not easy, at least for me. I think that without something like 5 meo it is impossible, because even if you think that you have realized the absolute, it is not really that, since your mind is still fully functioning. They may be glimpses, but you're still there. but be careful, 5 meo does not guarantee, it only facilitates. I have had many experiences with 5meo which are: infinite emptiness. and that's it. the few times that the absolute has opened up for me has been after having 2 or 3 of those total ego dissolutions where reality is a flat screen that expands to infinity devoid of all life. on the third, the void opens and the inexplicable happens. It's a bomb, not a glimpse. My strategy is to force that absolutely sad emptiness until my being gets used to it. and so in the future not need psychedelics. Sounds like I'm trying to rape god with a conquering ego... and so it is. So a lot of times I get absolute horror, but it's not in my nature to stop. Let's see. 

 

[Moksha]

@Breakingthewall Great insights. The pathway to God-realization is different for each of us. There are examples of mystics from Vyasa to Teresa of Avila to Siddhartha who directly realized their ultimate nature as God without 5 meo. I agree that there are glimpses of ultimate reality, and there are bombs. Usually the bomb doesn’t explode until the self desires nothing more desperately or deeply than reunion with God, even if the reunion means annihilation.

A while back I shared a stanza from St. John of the Cross where he compared awakening to God breaking the neck of the self, in an act of divine love that was its dissolution and the direct realization of being God.

I feel this is why the dark night of the soul is so often necessary before full awakening occurs. The suffering of separation must reach such intensity that even the drive for self-survival surrenders to the love of God. 

All along, it is God dreaming of reunion with itself, and usually the nightmare is necessary before awakening occurs.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Moksha

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

Usually the bomb doesn’t explode until the self desires nothing more desperately or deeply than reunion with God

the problem is that you can't wish for something you don't know. it is better to forget the word god, and anything else we have read. First, you have to realize that existence is this present moment. only this exists. is the absolute. second, wanting to penetrate to the bottom of what this is. for this we must delete any projection. what will you find there? you don't know. Everything that Leo has said, they are just stories. It is not that they are not true, it is that they are just stories in your present moment. unreal. the real is only the moment. true that they are a guide. even so you have to go to the bottom by yourself, without knowing anything. When your self disintegrates and reality is an infinite hole of nothing, not being, is the last frontier. I have managed to cross that door twice, for a certainty: I am. if you die absolutely, you plunge headlong into total emptiness, the manifestation takes place. but not always! so overcoming the fear of that empty death is essential. Today i did that twice, and every time, when it finished, i though: shit, I'm going to be traumatized for ever. This present moment is just...no thing. No life. No self just a nfinite hole. But in a while i already forgot and i could to do again:)) . Because i have faith: i am. So even I'm just nothing, let's be nothing. This nothing feels so good now so it couldn't be so bad. And i remember that times when the source manifested. But wait... maybe it's just an history in my mind...but well, maybe the nothing is just another history :))). Only the present moment is, so let's go deeper and deeper. I'm glad I can talk about it in this forum, because if I talk about it with anyone I know, they would think I have schizophrenia.

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

the problem is that you can't wish for something you don't know.

As I understand your experience, twice you broke through the void to realize the infinite abundance of ultimate reality. That is something you know, and can wish to realize again.

For me, there was an awakening which was profound enough that I felt it would last forever. It transformed my life, and my suffering dissolved. (Un)Fortunately the blissful state only lasted for 7 months. Then I was plunged into the dark night.

I couldn’t understand why or how this happened. It lasted for over a year, during which I was absent from these forums.  I read “Dark Night of the Soul” with commentary from Mirabai Starr and found it enormously helpful. It resonated deeply with my own experience. She explained that DNOS is not wishing for something you don’t know, but seeing the face of God and then being banished from its presence. The seeing makes the absence all the more painful. It grinds you down until there is nothing you desire more deeply than reunion with God.

God is only a name, which like all names falls short of describing ultimate reality. I see it as a powerful pointer to the holiness and wholeness of the Self which is who we truly are.

[Breakingthewall]

33 minutes ago, Moksha said:

As I understand your experience, twice you broke through the void to realize the infinite abundance of ultimate reality. That is something you know, and can wish to realize again.

Yeah, but it was just an experience. The thing is very subtle. only now is. I do not seek to have many experiences. but I know that these experiences are breaking down the walls that enclose me in the illusion of being a person who evolves over time. I'm going to break them until there's nothing left. why? Because freedom feels good

33 minutes ago, Moksha said:

couldn’t understand why or how this happened. It lasted for over a year, during which I was absent from these forums.  I read “Dark Night of the Soul” with commentary from Mirabai Starr and found it enormously helpful. It resonated deeply with my own experience. She explained that DNOS is not wishing for something you don’t know, but seeing the face of God and then being banished from its presence. The seeing makes the absence all the more painful. It grinds you down until there is nothing you desire more deeply than reunion with God.

You didn't think in taking any psychedelic to see what happens? Was it a state of depression? let's say the walls were closed for you, and not a bit of light penetrated. that's hard, misery. How did you get the light to come in? Meditation? How was your analogic process :)? I think it was good since reading you now is easy to perceive a real opening, much more than before . At the end, everything is just this present moment, but can be more close, more open, or absolutely open. We are trying to open it totally, because it feels great. If i compare my life now or 2 years ago it's crazy. I lived in the mud and in the misery and i thought i had a good life. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

@Breakingthewall I don’t feel chasing experiences leads to awakening, but once awake you can enjoy experiences lucidly without an ulterior motive. It is amazing how the simplest experience, like walking your dog down a tree-lined street, can be entirely transformed when thoughts recede and there is only being, without naming. The moment expands and you see the sameness underlying all beings, even the apparent space between them. It is all the phenomenal expression of underlying reality.

When you are going through DNOS, it is a downward spiral of suffering that is all the worse for having been free of suffering for so long. Like Lucifer being in heaven, and then cast down to hell, deprived of the glory he took for granted. Practices like meditation that brought serenity before are seen to be empty offerings, which have no value of themselves until they are accepted. The suffering intensifies until you finally open your eyes to the wisdom and grace in DNOS. It becomes undeniable that not only are you nothing without God, but you are nothing with God. The shadow self identified as you eventually dissolves into reunion with the glory of your ultimate nature.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Moksha

[Adrian Gonzales]

@Thought Art feel into what hes communicating. Hes saying to get rid of conceptual baggage and dropping the labels and projections. Dumber = wise...feel me?

Edited December 18, 2022 by Adrian Gonzales
Missed word

[Breakingthewall]

15 hours ago, Moksha said:

When you are going through DNOS, it is a downward spiral of suffering that is all the worse for having been free of suffering for so long

The difficult part of the game is to realize that the suffering is god. Just another experience  

But i understand you well. When the walls get closed the life turns grey and everything is a no sense. That's why the psychedelic are useful, to dynamite the walls at will

Edited December 18, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

@Breakingthewall As Tolle says, suffering is only necessary until it is no longer necessary. It serves the purpose of catalyzing awakening, and after you are fully awake there is no need to suffer. This is different from physical pain, etc. Suffering is resistance of the present moment and seeking external happiness rather than realizing it within.

I may try 5 meo at some point, but it is just another experience. I can see it helping some people, but we each have a different path.

[Razard86]

On 12/18/2022 at 4:48 AM, Adrian Gonzales said:

@Thought Art feel into what hes communicating. Hes saying to get rid of conceptual baggage and dropping the labels and projections. Dumber = wise...feel me?

Glad you get it. That monkey mind literally blocks you from spirit. I know a guy who could teach Spirituality from an epistemology point back to front and he is so got damn logical and full of stories that he constructed a story that he is not good enough to become God-Realized and that psychedelics are cheating and that he needs to meditate and study more. 

I literally told him he was whole and complete right now and he fought me on this. Also he never had a love awakening so he has no clue what love is from a metaphysical standpoint. When I told him that Love is dissolution of all boundaries, the realization that there is no difference between anything...he disagreed . He also did not believe that Love and Truth were the same thing *facepalm*

Sometimes people become too logical.