The value of giving up

[Jo96]

I heard a qoute in a neo advita type yoga school that went something along the lines of 

 

"Hopelessness is the secret medicine god gives to people "

 

I'm butchering the qoute, actually I couldn't find it but the general idea is about surrender when you realize that you can't. Do anything to improve your situation. The general idea is that you begin to let go of the egos need to control things, to manipulate, and of all the social constructs and boundaries that were laid upon you as a child. This is replaced by a deep trust and surrender to life that eventually leads to the complete surrender of the ego. 

 

Leo talks about in his videos how their is a big  difference between zeroing out your consciousness and self inquiry to the point of recognizing what reality all is. I was wondering if this relates at all to this. What role does surrender and self sacrifice play in the second path Leo points out? What can we expect would be different and how do we approach this second path? I don't totally understand what the difference is between deconstructing reality and the mind. Maybe I'm totally misunderstanding what you are saying Leo. If you had any insights I'd be really interested to understand how this second path is sought-after. 

 

[Kksd74628]

@Jo96

I'd say that you don't need to know these things. Just do your practices and one day you may know, for sure.

[Razard86]

You will only understand after you exhaust your need for control completely. Then you will start to notice things. But I'll give you some hints.

1. You don't have to control your heart beat it just happens.

2. You don't need to control your thoughts, they just happen. (Hardest one to notice)

3. You don't control your blood flow it just happens.

4. You don't control what words you are gonna say or words you write they just happen.

5. The illusion of control will start to become more and more aware of being an illusion over time.

Then one day....it will all make sense.

[axiom]

Total and absolute surrender to God - to yourself as God - to yourself as nothing - tends to happen when the ego has completely given up all hope. In a way, hopelessness is the long preparation and the ground for awakening.

When you have been thoroughly chewed up and spat out by life, when you have faced all your demons, when you have experienced the worst of all suffering and can take NO MORE, you come finally - exhausted and crawling on your bloody knees - and you surrender.

In a moment of enlightenment you are destroyed and liberated. God thereafter works through you unimpeded. Your life then becomes only about serving God.

For some people it may happen more gently. It depends how much of a person is “in there” to begin with.

The final showdown with the ego does tend to involve a lot of wailing and gnashing teeth however. It will burn up every last ounce of itself in its final moments. It’s a fight to the death for its survival.

[RMQualtrough]

Acceptance is the greatest means to liberation.

I understand the balancing act, though... You have to be actually Buddha or some shit to give up all Earthly things and just be fully contented.

In the modern world I imagine it's harder. Life is centered around material things. Not only that but we are so advanced that you are giving up more than Buddha would have. Buddha as a prince even never had air conditioning and gadgets or cars.

I have experience with this act, as I am a pretty much lifelong sufferer of Avoidant Personality Disorder. Basically it's impossible for me to form social connections, and when I do I secretly want them to end... Over many years I am able to better accept the panic attacks and anxiety. They still occur, but my response to them is less judgemental, which cuts out the "wow I'm such a fucking loser" thoughts which follow....

[Razard86]

On 8/20/2022 at 0:43 PM, RMQualtrough said:

Acceptance is the greatest means to liberation.

I understand the balancing act, though... You have to be actually Buddha or some shit to give up all Earthly things and just be fully contented.

In the modern world I imagine it's harder. Life is centered around material things. Not only that but we are so advanced that you are giving up more than Buddha would have. Buddha as a prince even never had air conditioning and gadgets or cars.

I have experience with this act, as I am a pretty much lifelong sufferer of Avoidant Personality Disorder. Basically it's impossible for me to form social connections, and when I do I secretly want them to end... Over many years I am able to better accept the panic attacks and anxiety. They still occur, but my response to them is less judgemental, which cuts out the "wow I'm such a fucking loser" thoughts which follow....

You are definitely not a loser, you are one of the smartest people on this forum. Please notice this. 

[Devin]

On 8/19/2022 at 9:48 PM, Jo96 said:

I heard a qoute in a neo advita type yoga school that went something along the lines of 

 

"Hopelessness is the secret medicine god gives to people "

 

I'm butchering the qoute, actually I couldn't find it but the general idea is about surrender when you realize that you can't. Do anything to improve your situation. The general idea is that you begin to let go of the egos need to control things, to manipulate, and of all the social constructs and boundaries that were laid upon you as a child. This is replaced by a deep trust and surrender to life that eventually leads to the complete surrender of the ego. 

 

Leo talks about in his videos how their is a big  difference between zeroing out your consciousness and self inquiry to the point of recognizing what reality all is. I was wondering if this relates at all to this. What role does surrender and self sacrifice play in the second path Leo points out? What can we expect would be different and how do we approach this second path? I don't totally understand what the difference is between deconstructing reality and the mind. Maybe I'm totally misunderstanding what you are saying Leo. If you had any insights I'd be really interested to understand how this second path is sought-after. 

 

In the second path you see the only logical thing to do is "surrender"

[VeganAwake]

The apparent problem is that surrendering just becomes another concept that the ego/self uses to try and get what it thinks it wants. (enlightenment)

But enlightenment is the disillusionment of the very ego/self which is attempting to attain it.

In other words enlightenment has nothing to do with surrendering and everything to do with realizing there was never anyone real to surrender in the first place....it was an illusion of self!

It's the end of seeking due to clearly seeing that the seeker doesn't actually exist.

It's similar to when it becomes obvious that santa claus isn't real.....there is no effort or difficulty involved in surrendering something that obviously never was!

❤