Leo and the Mentally Ill

[Carl-Richard]

43 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

Psychiatry easily heaps mystical experiences in with mania and psychosis.  They don't really think twice.  I told my psychiatrist and nurse that I had mystical experiences and they labelled it as mania and a part of psychosis immediately. 

If you're talking about extraordinary experiences while in a mental institution, that is an easy conclusion to draw for the people you're talking to. It's also true that most psychiatrists or nurses are not trained in making that distinction, which goes back to the practical problem solving approach of psychiatry: if you get hospitalized, there is most likely a pathological reason for that, and that is why the psychiatrist will easily opt for a pathological diagnosis. That said, if you talk to people who study the difference between extraordinary experiences and psychosis, they will emphasize the fact that mystical experiences are largely positive in nature, leading to deeper insight and clarity of mind (and you will most likely not get involuntarily hospitalized, but you might choose to), while psychotic experiences are largely distressing, confusing, unwanted etc. (and you'll often get involuntarily hospitalized).

[Proserpina]

16 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

If you're talking about extraordinary experiences while in a mental institution, that is an easy conclusion to draw for the people you're talking to. 

Not while hospitalised, no.   I was having communications with positive entities while hospitalised but it was rare near the end. 

16 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

if you get hospitalized, there is most likely a pathological reason for that, and that is why the psychiatrist will easily opt for a pathological diagnosis. That said, if you talk to people who study the difference between extraordinary experiences and psychosis, they will emphasize the fact that mystical experiences 

That's true.   I hospitalised myself.   No one would hospitalise me for long because I didn't appear psychotic except near the end when I begged to be hospitalised and was using my hands to meditate.  Shadow comes up during heavy spiritual work so I wouldn't say it's all sunshine and roses.  

Edited July 16, 2022 by Proserpina

[Carl-Richard]

10 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

Not while hospitalised, no.   I was having communications with positive entities while hospitalised but it was rare near the end. 

I meant talking about those types of experiences to people who work in a mental institution.

[Razard86]

 

27 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

If you're talking about extraordinary experiences while in a mental institution, that is an easy conclusion to draw for the people you're talking to. It's also true that most psychiatrists or nurses are not trained in making that distinction, which goes back to the practical problem solving approach of psychiatry: if you get hospitalized, there is most likely a pathological reason for that, and that is why the psychiatrist will easily opt for a pathological diagnosis. That said, if you talk to people who study the difference between extraordinary experiences and psychosis, they will emphasize the fact that mystical experiences are largely positive in nature (and you will most likely not get involuntarily hospitalized, but you might choose to), while psychotic experiences are largely distressing, confusing, unwanted etc. (and you'll often get involuntarily hospitalized).

I'm not an expert on schizophrenia so I won't pretend to be. But I would take a guess that saying mystical experiences are largely positive in nature is again based on a perspective. For example some people say there are no bad trips, because they choose to see each experience in a positive light. I'd take a venture the one deciding whether something is positive or not is the person going through the experience itself.

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

I'm not an expert on schizophrenia so I won't pretend to be. But I would take a guess that saying mystical experiences are largely positive in nature is again based on a perspective. For example some people say there are no bad trips, because they choose to see each experience in a positive light. I'd take a venture the one deciding whether something is positive or not is the person going through the experience itself.

I'll just say there is a difference between momentarily lifting the veil of the personal self and glimpsing the transpersonal self, and having the delusion that the weatherman on the TV is sending you personalized messages, persistent persecutory auditory hallucinations, problems thinking using linear logic, and believing that you're a famous person who will revolutionize some important field of study etc.

[Proserpina]

As someone who has experienced psychosis and mystical experiences there doesn't seem to be a clear cut difference between them.  They meld into each other and influence each other heavily.  Mystical experiences can cause the break down of the mind, the difficulty seeing the difference between mind stuff and uh, mind stuff.  Entities are fully sentient and aren't always pleasant, like any other person. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Proserpina

[Carl-Richard]

11 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

Entities are fully sentient and aren't always pleasant, like any other person. 

Have you had nondual mystical experiences?

[Proserpina]

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Have you had nondual mystical experiences?

Yes, I have, I think.  I've had up to eight months of nondual mystical experiences. Deep experiences of peace, love and oneness.  Entities have always accompanied them.  A bit like psychedelics. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Proserpina

[Carl-Richard]

11 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

Yes, I have, I think.

You think? 

[Proserpina]

19 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Have you had nondual mystical experiences?

I've had up to 13 months or more.    All the negative 'psychosis' was worth it for that 13 months of bliss.  

Edited July 16, 2022 by Proserpina

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Proserpina said:

I've had up to 13 months or more.    All the negative 'psychosis' was worth it for that 13 months of bliss.  

Any peak experiences? Like a state of no-mind, cessation of all physical sensations, loss of space and time, anything of that sort?

[Proserpina]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Any peak experiences? Like a state of no-mind, cessation of all physical sensations, loss of space and time, anything of that sort?

Yes.  Many like that.  Complete satisfaction, completion, no-mind, 'beautiful energies', everything glowed.  Very deep levels of 'bonding'.  Wrapped up in a blanket of love.  Body rapture. Loss of space and time was a primary theme, how entities are even possible.  

Edited July 16, 2022 by Proserpina

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'll just say there is a difference between momentarily lifting the veil of the personal self and glimpsing the transpersonal self, and having the delusion that the weatherman on the TV is sending you personalized messages, persistent persecutory auditory hallucinations, problems thinking using linear logic, and believing that you're a famous person who will revolutionize some important field of study etc.

I didn't tell you guys everything I saw. I had a voice in my head that became devilish, and when I went to the hospital outside I had evil cars coming trying to crash the ambulance. So I experienced some of the crazy stuff you are talking about, but I realize why that happened and it won't happen again. There were certain beliefs I had, and I learned that without the right grounded beliefs....your mind can take you further down the rabbit hole than you thought you could go.

So certain possible beliefs I had were killed because I went down that rabbit hole. I also experienced being stuck in a zone where there was no sense of time in the hospital without being allowed to leave the room and had a security guard who was being heavy handed with me and wouldn't let me leave. 

So yeah I went to the other side, but since this was my first time dealing with this it was all new to me.

I went through feeling I was going to get sucked out of a vortex so I couldn't sleep. I kept seeing visions and had trouble sleeping. I went through a lot man, but over time while there I stabilized my mind. I also had to deal with all the energy fluctuations of the people around me who were mentally unstable, we had a person scream bloody murder and run around naked there. So yeah I experienced the other side after my shrooms, edibles, car accident and kundalini awakening. There were a lot of stuff I left out of my report. I'm not speaking from some conceptual, nature I literally deconstructed my mind and had to fight to reconstruct it by telling myself lies that everything around us is real to make reality stable lol.

So yeah this victim mentality is what keeps people mentally ill, its why I was able to commit myself and leave when I could argue I was further gone than any of the people there.

People don't realize what Leo means when he says reality is groundless, it is literally held together by your belief. If you believe 100 percent that everything around you is fake...it will all disappear. Its the funniest thing to find that out, it shows you the power of your beliefs. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Razard86

[Proserpina]

20 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

I didn't tell you guys everything I saw. I had a voice in my head that became devilish, and when I went to the hospital outside I had evil cars coming trying to crash the ambulance. So I experienced some of the crazy stuff you are talking about, but I realize why that happened and it won't happen again. There were certain beliefs I had, and I learned that without the right grounded beliefs....your mind can take you further down the rabbit hole than you thought you could go.

So certain possible beliefs I had were killed because I went down that rabbit hole. I also experienced being stuck in a zone where there was no sense of time in the hospital without being allowed to leave the room and had a security guard who was being heavy handed with me and wouldn't let me leave. 

So yeah I went to the other side, but since this was my first time dealing with this it was all new to me.

I went through feeling I was going to get sucked out of a vortex so I couldn't sleep. I kept seeing visions and had trouble sleeping. I went through a lot man, but over time while there I stabilized my mind. I also had to deal with all the energy fluctuations of the people around me who were mentally unstable, we had a person scream bloody murder and run around naked there. So yeah I experienced the other side after my shrooms, edibles, car accident and kundalini awakening. There were a lot of stuff I left out of my report. I'm not speaking from some conceptual, nature I literally deconstructed my mind and had to fight to reconstruct it by telling myself lies that everything around us is real to make reality stable lol.

So yeah this victim mentality is what keeps people mentally ill, its why I was able to commit myself and leave when I could argue I was further gone than any of the people there.

People don't realize what Leo means when he says reality is groundless, it is literally held together by your belief. If you believe 100 percent that everything around you is fake...it will all disappear. Its the funniest thing to find that out, it shows you the power of your beliefs. 

Wow.  Very very similar experiences, almost exactly the same.  The cars, the voice, the hospital, visions, the patients, labelling things as fake... I had to label things as 'delusion', 'hallucination' in the end so the medication would start kicking in.   And it worked.   Mostly I was able to get through everything by meditating.   Meditating would dissolve it all except for what did not need to be dissolved.   It was like the universe was rapidly showing me beliefs to be dissolved.  

Edited July 16, 2022 by Proserpina

[Tyler Robinson]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'll just say there is a difference between momentarily lifting the veil of the personal self and glimpsing the transpersonal self, and having the delusion that the weatherman on the TV is sending you personalized messages, persistent persecutory auditory hallucinations, problems thinking using linear logic, and believing that you're a famous person who will revolutionize some important field of study etc.

That sounds like bipolar. 

 

 

[Razard86]

7 hours ago, Proserpina said:

Wow.  Very very similar experiences, almost exactly the same.  The cars, the voice, the hospital, visions, the patients, labelling things as fake... I had to label things as 'delusion', 'hallucination' in the end so the medication would start kicking in.   And it worked.   Mostly I was able to get through everything by meditating.   Meditating would dissolve it all except for what did not need to be dissolved.   It was like the universe was rapidly showing me beliefs to be dissolved.  

Ahh a kindred spirit!!! Its nice to meet someone who understands!! You too went to the void and returned!!! Yes isn't it amazing that you find out we been lying to ourselves our entire life? Its so freaking funny!! We literally have to lie to stay as a human!! Its the funniest thing!! But yes I'm glad you understand. All those experiences also to me is the greatest accomplishment to me in my life because I finally got to experience the truth, and I STILL haven't gone as deep as I would like. 

But yes thank you for this post, I feel so loved when another can relate to what I went through. And yes meditation is key, you can remain calm by breathwork and surrendering to the moment. What helps me is I truly believe that I can remain calm. As long as I focus on that I am good. We are all capable of this, some just need more training than others and I know I am no where near the best at centering myself.

[Razard86]

8 hours ago, Proserpina said:

I've had up to 13 months or more.    All the negative 'psychosis' was worth it for that 13 months of bliss.  

Wait 13 months? I only had bliss for 2 weeks!!! Lol I couldn't handle it after awhile it started to hurt so I started doing grounding exercises...now I miss it lol. But I wouldn't be able to function since my job involves dealing with people and it made me too energy sensitive. I literally could merge with the energy people put out when they speak. So if you were energetically unstable....I could match it and become one with your energy and feel your emotions. I call it energy empathy.

[TurquoiseAngel]

Simple terms, you don't know what you don't know.

Even though I grew up with some members of my family struggling with their mental health,  had no interest or understanding of mental illness at all, until it happened to my daughter. She is only 15 but started showing signs at 11. It is been a long road for myself and for her to accept and make sense of what is going on and I must say, it is making myself a better person but if I had a choice between an offspring with zero mental health issues like me or a daughter like I have, I would still choose no mental health issues...life is already hard enough, being human is already complicated enough...why throw more in? However as I said, like in all situations in my life, I make the most of it to exercise patience, compassion, open mind, resilience, trust and creative ways of doing things + higher levels of communication.

For example. I just got a new job 5 days ago and joined a project that is nearly finished. It is to do with services for children who struggle with their mental health - complete coincidence. There must be 8 to 10 people involved in the project and none have direct experience but because I have, i was able to pick up a very small but crucial detail and highlighted it to them. Now, the project will have to be fixed and it will require some meetings and approvals (a very bureaucratic system) but it is for the better  and will save a huge mistake that was being made. There was a general feeling that something was wrong and missing but nobody could envision a solution. New girl in the team solved it for them and earned a few brownie points.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by TurquoiseAngel

[Carl-Richard]

18 hours ago, Proserpina said:

Yes.  Many like that.  Complete satisfaction, completion, no-mind, 'beautiful energies', everything glowed.  Very deep levels of 'bonding'.  Wrapped up in a blanket of love.  Body rapture. Loss of space and time was a primary theme, how entities are even possible.  

That's great, and I believe you know how to draw a general distinction between those types of experiences and psychotic symptoms (e.g. the positive/negative symptoms of schizophrenia or the symptoms of bipolar mania). It's important to be realistic about these things. People like Sadhguru, Rupert Spira and Eckhart Tolle are not schizophrenics. They're mystics. You can have schizophrenic mystics and non-schizophrenic mystics.

[Proserpina]

32 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

That's great, and I believe you know how to draw a general distinction between those types of experiences and psychotic symptoms (e.g. the positive/negative symptoms of schizophrenia or the symptoms of bipolar mania). It's important to be realistic about these things. People like Sadhguru, Rupert Spira and Eckhart Tolle are not schizophrenics. They're mystics. You can have schizophrenic mystics and non-schizophrenic mystics.

Yes.  It's just that the entities involved in both experiences have a continuation, a sentience.  You can't really split it up.  It all flows together, intelligently.  I suspect they don't have the psychosis aspects because they've dissolved all beliefs (non schizophrenic mystic).  Or perhaps they lack some spiritual gifts or knowledge.  I'm not sure.  

Edited July 16, 2022 by Proserpina