Duality In Dreams

[Orange]

I thought about this today: When you dream, all of the dream is you since you are its creator and in this sense it is of an inherent non dual nature. But i have never felt this non dual nature within my dreams. For as long as I can remember, I have always felt duality in my dreams: for eg. when I was a child I was hiding away from a monster. Or in another more recent dream I was asking for directions to a woman.  

Hence feeling the separation between me and the other (the monster or the woman). 

Does anyone have experience of non duality in dreams? And im not talking about the intellectual comprehension that your dream is non dual, Im talking about a feeling. 

Im also curious about your thoughts on the feeling of duality in dreams .. 

 

 

 

[Hsinav]

The dreams is produced by the subconscious mind and can therefore by definition never reach a non dual state. Only a conscious mind can. I guess.

[Hsinav]

A feeling is also by definition a dual state.

[Principium Nexus]

Absolute non-duality is the absence of the smallest change possible. It is infinte stillness and non-existent, but the mind can start to grasp what deeper levels of stillness are by breaking down the duality of labeling. You can still experience feelings but not attach any thought to this and this comes the closest to how we can experience the slightest taste of non-duality.

Regarding to dreaming, I think that by learning what deeper levels of stillness are you also get insight in how these subtle changes build your reality (dream or life) from the ground up. Training to be conciouss when entering very calm states of mind (sleeping) you begin to master to see and create a powerful solid dream or life. Anyone who is experienced in lucid dreaming knows that if you become too emotional or things change really fast, the dream gets pretty instable and can collide, eventually waking you up. Learning to carefull approach lucid states while dreaming can give you the power to create hyper realistic dreams where you can take full control of. It's about learning how small increaments of duality come together and construct larger complex frameworks.

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Principium Nexus

[cetus]

21 minutes ago, Vanish said:

The dreams is produced by the subconscious mind and can therefore by definition never reach a non dual state. Only a conscious mind can. I guess.

@Vanish Mind is always dualistic.  

Non-dual states are only found when the mind is transcended.

@Orange If you had a true non-dual dream, you may not remember it at all.  Deep sleep may be the most non-dual state we have day to day.

[Hsinav]

@cetus56 Yes, and only a conscious mind can transcend.

[FirstglimpseOMG]

I imagine the dream state, the normal waking state & deep sleep are all couched within the same 'I Am' awareness. I imagine the only difference, really, is your level of awareness of the core 'I Am' awareness. I am starting to find it a bit comical when folks make definitive statements about modulations of consciousness with only an inkling of what they are discussing.

[cetus]

22 minutes ago, Vanish said:

@cetus56 Yes, and only a conscious mind can transcend.

You can't think your way into a non-dual state.. To transcend the mind is to move beyond the mind. Than only pure awareness remains within silence.

In other words, non-duality only happens when no one is home. No conscious mind to fill in the dualities. All that remains is what is. For instance, have you ever been so immersed and at one with something that you completely forgot yourself? That was pure awareness. Transcendence. It only happens when you not looking.

[Hsinav]

10 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

You can't think your way into a non-dual state.. To transcend the mind is to move beyond the mind. Than only pure awareness remains within silence.

In other words, non-duality only happens when no one is home. No conscious mind to fill in the dualities. All that remains is what is. For instance, have you ever been so immersed and at one with something that you completely forgot yourself? That was pure awareness. Transcendence. It only happens when you not looking.

Yes, mind is maya but my point is that it is a step-stone to that state of non-duality. Whithout it you´d be like a dog. In a dog there is no-one home, yet the dog can not reach that state.

[Dodo]

I have the opinion that spiritual growth is more efficient in dream states, because there you are closer to your true self. The logical mind is gone there.

Ive had a number of very profound dreams in the past year which show this.

The subconscious can also be viewed as God.

But anyway,  my opinion is that one shows their true colors in dreams. Without even knowing.. One has to learn from that.

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Dodoster

[cetus]

19 minutes ago, Vanish said:

20 minutes ago, Vanish said:

Yes, mind is maya but my point is that it is a step-stone to that state of non-duality. Whithout it you´d be like a dog. In a dog there is no-one home, yet the dog can not reach that state.

Yes, mind is maya but my point is that it is a step-stone to that state of non-duality. Whithout it you´d be like a dog. In a dog there is no-one home, yet the dog can not reach that state.

@Vanish I hear what your saying. But it's the conscious mind that created duality in the first place. That's what makes this work such a paradox at first.

What your saying is  "use a splinter to remove a splinter"

But you see the thing is, the first splinter itself is an illusion.

I think the best thing is just to remain empty. There is no one to do anything. Things arise in mind, in sleep and in waking. It's all meaningless until there is someone there to attached a meaning to it. (duality)

You could work for years trying to get enlightened through all kinds of practice. But in the end, all you really needed to do is Vanish.

 

[Hsinav]

12 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

What your saying is  "use a splinter to remove a splinter"

What i am saying is you have to use this splinter to realise there never were any.

17 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

But you see the thing is, the first splinter itself is an illusion.

Yeah it is but you would´nt be able to realise/enjoy that as this dual form whitout going through this step-stone.

 

21 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

I think the best thing is just to remain empty. There is no one to do anything. Things arise in mind, in sleep and in waking. It's all meaningless until there is someone there to attached a meaning to it. (duality)

 

Absolutely.

 

21 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

You could work for years trying to get enlightened through all kinds of practice. But in the end, all you really needed to do is Vanish.

True. 

[cetus]

3 minutes ago, Vanish said:

What i am saying is you have to use this splinter to realise there never were any.

Exactly!

 

3 minutes ago, Vanish said:

Yeah it is but you would´nt be able to realise/enjoy that as this dual form whitout going through this step-stone.

 

That's totally your journey. Many roads can lead to the same destination.

[Hsinav]

1 hour ago, cetus56 said:

That's totally your journey. Many roads can lead to the same destination.

Very wise, thank you!

[cetus]

@Vanish I just heard a great quote that I wanted to share with you. "You use a stick to stir a fire knowing that eventually you will throw the stick in the fire too".

[Hsinav]

33 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

 

@Vanish I just heard a great quote that I wanted to share with you. "You use a stick to stir a fire knowing that eventually you will throw the stick in the fire too".

 

@cetus56 Thank you for that! Much appreciated,  I will throw my last stick into that fire...

[Guivs]

Deep sleep is a state of ignorance and so is dreaming without lucidity.

[cetus]

26 minutes ago, Vanish said:

@cetus56 Thank you for that! Much appreciated,  I will throw my last stick into that fire...

@Vanish I'm not quite done with my stick yet. There is still plenty yet that needs to burn off.

[cetus]

This looks interesting. Thought I'd share it.

What is sleep?

By its very nature consciousness is nameless, formless and timeless. Mental patterns, which are nothing but our automated response mechanisms to situations, keep pulling at the nervous system, creating the world of name, form and time. This is the world as it is experienced by all. The intelligent innate consciousness in everyone always wants to get back to this original state where there is neither name, nor form, nor the experience of time. When one falls asleep, the consciousness floods the body and the nervous system, it packs up all the patterns, almost like packing up a tent. This is what is the experience of deep and dreamless sleep. In the sleep state, however, the patterns do not die. They just remain in their seed state.

When the effect of patterns and consciousness on the body is evenly balanced, one has the right experience of the world, dreams and sleep. If the consciousness becomes less, and the effect of patterns is more then natural, sleep disorders are the result. Too much of attachment to what is seen or heard, which is nothing but the effect of patterns, is responsible for insomnia and other sleep disorders. If the effect of consciousness is more on the nervous system as compared to the patterns, that is what leads to the meditative state and super-consciousness. Increased consciousness during the day will naturally lead to awareness in the dream state, and then to awareness during the deep sleep state. When one becomes aware in all the three states – waking, dream and sleep, it is called turiya, the fourth state. Finally, when the effect of consciousness is too much on the nervous system, all the patterns get destroyed permanently. This gives the direct experience of enlightenment.

So it is very important to flood consciousness into every action during the day, and sleep in the night. This technique is a direct method to bring awareness into the deep sleep state. It needs to be practiced at night in a darkened room, for one full night. The unique thing about this meditation is that it is sufficient to do it just once to heal all sleep related problems.

Instructions

Sit in a comfortable posture. You can sit cross-legged on the floor or in a chair. Sit in an upright posture with the head, neck and spine in a straight line. You can support the lower back, but do not allow the head or upper back to rest against any surface, otherwise there will be a likelihood of falling asleep. For this reason it is better not to sit on the bed while doing this meditation.

Close your eyes. You can also tie a cloth around the eyes. This will give a deeper experience of darkness, and avoid the temptation to open the eyes.

Now meditate deeply on darkness. Darkness is the nature of deep sleep. So meditate on darkness. Visualize that you are inhaling and exhaling darkness. Visualize darkness flooding you and everything around you. Visualize it entering into each and every cell of your body, until all that exists is darkness.
Repeat the word darkness mentally like chanting a mantra. If your mind starts wandering, bring it back to the experience of darkness.

When this meditation is done successfully for one full night, one will have the experience of conscious sleep and it will completely heal disorders like insomnia or chronic fatigue. There will be no tiredness from meditating all night, in fact one will feel fresh, alive and full of energy. However, the benefits do not stop with just better sleep and health. The process given here can be a direct way to experience enlightenment itself.

Adapted from the teachings from Paramahamsa Nithyananda

Edited February 7, 2017 by cetus56

[Hsinav]

20 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

@Vanish I'm not quite done with my stick yet. There is still plenty yet that needs to burn off.

Ohh....