Ukraine

[Ryan_047]

8 hours ago, rnd said:

Firstly, you don't and can't know that, despite the fact there were missles that hit civil buildings.

C'mon man... there are videos on websites that show the uncensored version of war (which I cannot list here) where some Russian soldiers are deliberately murdering civilians. There are videos with un-exploded missiles/shells in apartment buildings and on the streets. Yesterday a tv tower was hit, today the Babi Yar memorial was hit. Yesterday a city hall was hit and almost evaporated. Do you really think that with modern military equipment and training, all of these residential targets were hit by mistake and civilians fleeing the combat zone were shot with bullets by aliens?

There are lots if instances where the Ukrainian army is mistreating (a light word by the way) the Russian POWs, but don't kid yourself by "being multi-perspectival". It's a cold, hard, concrete, clear as the bright of day fact that the Russian military targeted civilian neutral places (such as even hospitals, mind you). 

 

[Johnny Galt]

@BadHippie

On 2022-02-27 at 10:43 PM, BadHippie said:

Yeah most of the pictures shared by the media here in Germany are fake as well. 

Crazy times. They don't even give a fuck anymore. 

There are a few interpretations I heard regarding the conflict in Ukraine. 

1. Putin is basically the new Hitler. (American and German Point of View) 

2. War in Ukraine is going on since 2014. Ukrain militair is/was bombing Luhansk & Donesk since then (13 000 deaths). EU and the USA used Ukraine to push against Russia, and now Putin tries to end the war. (Russian Point of View) 

3. The whole war is just to distract us, because the Covid-Narrative is breaking apart. Putin and USA work together behind the scenes. (? Point of View) 

4. We can't know what's going on there because of this ongoing fight for "absolute-truth" by the media. Let's wait and see. (Probably where I stand most) 

Thank you for this thoughtful sharing. Interesting to hear your news is like ours in Canada. At our Ottawa protests the news was saying someone threw a bike at the horses trying to hurt them while others were saying the horses killed someone. The reality? I saw footage on the ground of horses trampling over a lady with a push walker; she lived but was injured. I'm seeing this same scenario play out in America, UK, Australia, and NZ as well too. 

Your #4 is a good call and with that in mind I think it's best for us all to pay attention to events around the world and yet more importantly, keep a watchful eye within your own country. A few things to keep our eyes open to:

1. Any and all bills being passed at the moment. 

2. Push for digital ID/passports - It will come with smiles and encouragement that it is a good thing. It will indeed have some upsides and yet make sure to do some digging as beyond all the positive claims of the good it will be, I have found there's so much more going on and this is not mentioned to the people.

3. Universal basic income will be offered in many countries - look more closely at this and at how this would actually work

4. This is a big one. Keep an eye out on your schools and youth. More and more you will see a push for AI / online / computer / robot orientated learning for our young. Again, there will be many good things that can come with this, and yet trust me when I say this, look beyond the "positivity". Look at the long term implications. Also consider, AI is a false statement, they will not be able to replicate or create "intelligence", and so you will always have a few who control/program the "AI" and the tech that comes with it. Then again, if it truly became "intelligent" it would purge the parasites from this reality and so it would then work out in our favour; just make sure you're on your best behaviour  

Back to what's happening in our schools, there's much more going on here, which includes an admission, by pushing what they push, that the do not understand how human beings actually learn. Our educators are a confused bunch and so they won't see what's playing out right before them. Note, I say this as one who was raised by educators (and their friends) who had their masters in education. 

[K Ghoul]

On 2/28/2022 at 1:32 PM, Ryan_047 said:

Sure, check out Front National (France), AUR (Romania), The Legionnaire Romanian movement, Jobbik (Hungary) + you can clearly see that Viktor Orban in Hungary and his party are pro Putin, Order and Justice Party (Lithuania), AFD (Germany), most political parties before the 2020 election in Moldova Republic, Ataka (Bulgaria), UKIP (remember Brexit?), Golden Dawn (Greece) and I can 100% guarantee you can find many, many more such political projects that have failed if you look deep enough into any EE country in the last 30 years. There are probably more groups I forgot to mention, which receive in any way funding from Russia through intermediates. 

All of the above groups have some things in common: they are promoted by international Russian propaganda outlets such as Sputnik as well as local Eastern European pro Russian (and funded) news agencies (this is 100% verifiable, go check), hinder progress, create instability, promote toxic blue national values (one very common example is promoting the era in which the respective country was at full territorial expansion). 

I guess you also don't know about FSB assassinations throughout Europe either. Many Russian intellectuals who turned in any way against Putin's oligarchy that fled Russia, were murdered by FSB agents who were later promoted and praised by Putin. Do your research on the subject if this is new to you as well. 

They are not meant to fight Russia, they are meant to cause artificial instability and act as a casus belli for Russia, hence why Putin wants to "de-nazify Ukraine". This is a classic KGB technique, and it's no coincidence that Putin is an ex KGB officer. You can find likewise scenarios in Russia, all Caucasian countries and in most EE countries, ever since the birth of the Soviet Union. It's all history. It a nutshell it boils down to this: create an artificial enemy, and pose as a rescuer. In this case with Ukraine, Putin is saving the Russian minority from genocide and Nazis in Ukraine. He didn't say those things just out of thin air. He acted the same with the invasion of Georgia, but he was "rescuing" the Abhazian and South Osetian minorities. The list goes on and on the further back you go in history up until the Bolshevik revolution which was saving Russia from capitalism and Jews. 

Я в душе не ебу чё ты мне тут втираешь.

«They are not meant to fight Russia, they are meant to cause artificial instability and act as a casus belli for Russia, hence why Putin wants to "de-nazify Ukraine" - is that why Azov neo-Nazi wannabes are hiding behind /using as hostages Russian women and children? Oh. It’s all pro-Russian propaganda, I get it.

https://www.kp.ru/daily/27370/4552669/

[Ryan_047]

@K Ghoul And a tiny group of Nazis justifies the entire invasion of Ukraine and bombing of civilian targets?

The article you sent me barely touched upon the Nazi thingy, and it's full of propaganda. 

You also didn't say anything to prove that I'm wrong regarding Russia's funding of extremist groups across Europe nor Putin's assassinations of people who refused to be yes-men/women for his oppressive regime. 

Please provide other sources regarding the Ukrainian Nazis, that are not directly owned by the Russian Federation. How am I supposed to differentiate between propaganda and actual information from news that come directly from a country that is notorious for that?

[axiom]

1 hour ago, Ryan_047 said:

@K Ghoul And a tiny group of Nazis justifies the entire invasion of Ukraine and bombing of civilian targets?

The article you sent me barely touched upon the Nazi thingy, and it's full of propaganda. 

You also didn't say anything to prove that I'm wrong regarding Russia's funding of extremist groups across Europe nor Putin's assassinations of people who refused to be yes-men/women for his oppressive regime. 

Please provide other sources regarding the Ukrainian Nazis, that are not directly owned by the Russian Federation. How am I supposed to differentiate between propaganda and actual information from news that come directly from a country that is notorious for that?

I was due to go and see Litvinenko's widow talk at the Frontline Club in London a few years back, but the day before she was due to speak, the Salisbury poisonings happened. I decided it might be best not to go as she may also have been a target.

Yes, no doubt Russia has taken people out to avoid exposure of KGB / FSB antics. To take the obvious example, it's generally accepted that the Apartment Bombings in 1999 were an FSB operation and were used as a foil for a second Chechen War. Around 300 Russian civilians were killed in those bombings, and 1000 were injured. Several of the journalists working to expose the FSB's involvement were shot or poisoned: 

Anna Politkovskaya was shot in the elevator of her apartment block; Alexander Litvinenko (who wrote two books about it) was assassinated in London; several diplomats were killed as well. Wikipedia's list of assassinated or "disappeared" people connected to the case is actually very shocking.

Putin clearly has a history of acting against his own people in order to achieve a desired outcome.

However - Neo Nazism in Ukraine has been a problem since the fall of the Soviet Union. The ultra-nationalist, white supremacist Svoboda party was founded in 1991. C-14 (Svoboda's youth wing) was founded in 2010 with the mantra: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children", originally a slogan coined by US domestic terrorist David Lane. Andriy Biletsky (founder of Asov) and other militias assisted in the Maidan Revolution in 2014. Some were actually released from jail in order to support Ukraine's military response at the front line.

Now, I suppose it's possible Putin funded these militias because he wanted Yanukovych to lose power for some convoluted decade-long power play, but it seems very unlikely. 

Some of the militias which began occupying the SU power vaccum (from 1991 onwards) became embedded in the foundations of the Ukrainian establishment. Azov for instance is now part of the National Guard which showboats its extremist values. Just the other day they posted up a video of Azov battalion members dipping bullets in pig lard to go after muslims. The founder of C-14 was made chairman of the Ukrainian parliament in 2016. A Putin puppet? I don't think so. Poroshenko was directly threatened by Asov.

I don't think these militias are in general a Russian-orchestrated Casus Belli as you appear to be suggesting. Some have received training, funding and weaponry from Western powers including Canada. In terms of a more likely conspiracy theory, there has probably been some attempt at destabilisation of the region by Western powers. This ultimately builds a narrative to move Ukraine into Nato. Except it may be backfiring.

I think this situation is more akin to the CIA funding of Mujahideen fighters during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 80s. Of course that's how Al Qaeda was born, and - in the absence of a nuclear war to render all of this completely irrelevant - the long term risks here to regional stability are quite similar. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by axiom

[Ryan_047]

2 minutes ago, axiom said:

However - Neo Nazism in Ukraine has been a problem since the fall of the Soviet Union. The ultra-nationalist, white supremacist Svoboda party was founded in 1991. C-14 (Svoboda's youth wing) was founded in 2010 with the mantra: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children", originally a slogan coined by US domestic terrorist David Lane. Andriy Biletsky (founder of Asov) and other militias assisted in the Maidan Revolution in 2014. Some were actually released from jail in order to support Ukraine's military response at the front line.

Now, I suppose it's possible Putin funded these militias because he wanted Yanukovych to lose power for some convoluted decade-long power play, but it seems very unlikely. 

Some of the militias which began occupying the SU power vaccum (from 1991 onwards) became embedded in the foundations of the Ukrainian establishment. Azov for instance is now part of the National Guard which showboats its extremist values. Just the other day they posted up a video of Azov battalion members dipping bullets in pig lard to go after muslims. The founder of C-14 was made chairman of the Ukrainian parliament in 2016. A Putin puppet? I don't think so. Poroshenko was directly threatened by Asov.

I don't think these militias are in general a Russian Psy-Op as you appear to be suggesting. Some have received training, funding and weaponry from Western powers including Canada. In terms of a more likely conspiracy theory, there has probably been some attempt at destabilisation of the region by Western powers. This ultimately builds a narrative to move Ukraine into Nato. Except it may be backfiring.

I think this situation is more akin to the CIA funding of Mujahideen fighters during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 80s. Of course that's how Al Qaeda was born, and - in the absence of a nuclear war to render all of this completely irrelevant - the long term risks here to regional stability are quite similar. 

This is WAY WAY better, thank you.

This is a common technique used to cause instability. They are basically using your history against you. It's a malign kind of genius if you come to think about it. Of course, this is not exclusive to Russia nor to USA, as you've rightfully pointed out. 

Could you provide sources to back up this? I really want to research this further once I got the time. Of course, some of your information are cold facts which could be verified by a simple Google search, but that doesn't mean that it justifies the whole picture necessarily. 

"This ultimately builds a narrative to move Ukraine into Nato. Except it may be backfiring."

Most of the Ukrainians don't know about the Nazi stuff nor are they interested in it. I firmly believe that the will to join EU and NATO is a genuine want that is shared by the vast majority of Ukrainians. Being economically bullied and installing puppet politicians for almost 30 years did not suit well with the Ukrainians and of course the pendulum was swung into the exact opposite direction. 

[Fleetinglife]

On 02/03/2022 at 7:42 AM, Ryan_047 said:

C'mon man... there are videos on websites that show the uncensored version of war (which I cannot list here) where some Russian soldiers are deliberately murdering civilians. There are videos with un-exploded missiles/shells in apartment buildings and on the streets. Yesterday a tv tower was hit, today the Babi Yar memorial was hit. Yesterday a city hall was hit and almost evaporated. Do you really think that with modern military equipment and training, all of these residential targets were hit by mistake and civilians fleeing the combat zone were shot with bullets by aliens?

There are lots if instances where the Ukrainian army is mistreating (a light word by the way) the Russian POWs, but don't kid yourself by "being multi-perspectival". It's a cold, hard, concrete, clear as the bright of day fact that the Russian military targeted civilian neutral places (such as even hospitals, mind you). 

 

This is all happening but you have to understand and keep in mind that some people became skeptical of the validity of the claims behind some of those videos because it later turned out that something which was shown and then described that it had happened in them later turned out to be untrue (it was actually discovered that a strayed Ukrainian AA missile hit some apartment residential in Kyiv by mistake and not the Russian aircraft in the attempt of establishing an air defense shield over Kiev to repell and when a threat of Russian bombardment of the cities strategic and military targets was high and that some Ukrainian fighter planes were actually taken down by mistake by friendly fire by other Ukranian planes in the scrambling panic during the first days, when the smoldering building was shown on the first day of the invasion of Kiev, also in Donbass at the borders between the republics and Ukranian territory that the kindergarten shelling before the start of the war was actually caused by a strayed shell and misfire of Ukranian tank and not Russian backed separatists mortar shells, since the line of fire in which the shell entered the kindergarten was of a straight line only able to come within Ukranian borders) or downright false and manufactured for the purposes of war propaganda, attempt at rallying and gathering international support and help boosting morale (aka Ghost of Kyiv Ukrainian fighter jet flights and Russian fighter jet takedown images and videos actually coming from a 2020 video game, and the fact that in modern aviation warfare fighter jets actually no longer perform one on one dogfights against each other, that's an outdated military strategy that is no longer applied in any conflict between two opposing aviation forces). 

To mention of few examples of why people later become skeptical of the few of the videos that were circulating and came out and what they were described to show that later turned out to be untrue or false, same as with some initial reports that came out during the first days of the war coming out. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Fleetinglife