Can a man-made computer become conscious?

[Dazgwny]

A robot may one day be programmed so well that it uses its programming to mix up different aspects of its programming and creating totally new subsets and displaying different behaviours from its original programming therefore looking like it is making conscious decisions and consciously developing. You may even perceive it as having emotions things like that. I’m no computer whizz so forgive my lack of vocabulary on this subject hence my repetitive use of the word programming. It could very well one day seem that they do, but this is different to having a subjective conscious experience no matter how believable it may seem from a dualistic outside perspective. No computer mechanism/robot I’m afraid will ever be what we claim is a conscious separate entity

Edited February 2, 2022 by Dazgwny

[Someone here]

14 hours ago, Mosess said:

thoughts have no house dude, try observing it for yourself and see, they appear and disappear, from nowhere to nowhere. for no one.

You can tell yourself they are located inside of  the brain , in a neuron, but that makes absolutely no difference, nor does it make any positive influence to your personal development or freedom.

it is, in the end ofcourse, just but another thought that you are telling your self to diverge yourself from the true nature of what a thought is.

Observe your thoughts for yourself, and see for yourself. Stop listening to me, or to an outside source that tells you what is going on within you. do you see how fucking stupid that is?

only you can know, by doing it your self. not by reading it, LOOK AT IT AND SEE!! 

I know disembodied spirits exist through indirect observation and personal accounts. Probably even in the same methods ( although not the same context) as how physicists proof the existence of atoms. I think if people would open their minds and stop waiting for science to tell them when to jump they would see that there is more to this world than what we perceive through "evidence" and "facts". Not that I think science is bad, or wrong, or a waste, but there are some people who would eat rat poison if a scientist said it had antioxidants in it!

Edited February 2, 2022 by Someone here

[Someone here]

21 minutes ago, Dazgwny said:

A robot may one day be programmed so well that it uses its programming to mix up different aspects of its programming and creating totally new subsets and displaying different behaviours from its original programming therefore looking like it is making conscious decisions and consciously developing. You may even perceive it as having emotions things like that. I’m no computer whizz so forgive my lack of vocabulary on this subject hence my repetitive use of the word programming. It could very well one day seem that they do, but this is different to having a subjective conscious experience no matter how believable it may seem from a dualistic outside perspective. No computer mechanism/robot I’m afraid will ever be what we claim is a conscious separate entity

Not just my intuition, but everyone's intuition is the most reliable source of information on this planet. We are programmed beings. Instincts tell us more about the outside world than our abstract thought does. Allowing that abstract thought led to a myriad of discoveries. Intuition has kept us alive and for that I think it is stronger than any other source of "evidenc

[Someone here]

57 minutes ago, Tangerinedream said:

humans already are just like robots we are also programmed from outside sources. What I would be interested to know is if a robot could be able to feel love and emotions and have a drive to be social (or anti social) ? If a kind of human-like conscious machine could be created, would it have the need to act from a place of survival?  
Would the robot spontaneously go and cook some food or text another robot friend?would it want to do unconscious things to try and relax and cope with stress?  Would they get stressed?  seek out companionship? maybe they could be programmed to do those things but in limited form.  For example if an artificial ego could be created by let’s say, programming a lot of memories in to the bot - you could program memories of a bad childhood and a pessimistic outlook on life.  
Or happy childhood memories and a positive outlook.  But could the happy one then also have the ability to become sad or feel lonely? Could the pessimistic one ‘wake up’ and have realisations about its childhood and then work to try and change its views? I guess what I would wonder is if they could be created to be unlimited in their thoughts and feelings.  I dunno. 

 

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I just realized that I did not answer the thread's question. I believe that, if enough fundamental programming is entered into the machine, it could replicate life easily. The human mind, on average, processes 1 terrabyte of information per second. Our computer technology already is beginning to come close to this speed, and certain mainframe computers have the processing power and vastly surpasses it.

[Mu_]

@Someone here Even though there is something bigger so to say than either, if humans can seemingly come from stardust over millions of years, I see no reason that so called computers and circuit boards couldn't become conscious.  

[Brivido]

Sadhguru's answer on the same question, on his instagram account:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZcNzQhPwG3/

[Someone here]

33 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

@Someone here Even though there is something bigger so to say than either, if humans can seemingly come from stardust over millions of years, I see no reason that so called computers and circuit boards couldn't become conscious.  

What is consciouseness? I believe it is a form of self awareness. To be specific, at least a basic understanding of who you are, what you are doing, and why you are doing it. Each of these things can be taught to a computer program, it's name, purpose and it's actions. But unless software can evolve to the point where it can parse and apply this knoledge, it is not self-awareness.

At first, it is impossible to see how one might write software to the express purpose of being self aware. Nothing, however can be created to fulfill this purpose and nothing else. What is the necessary prerequisite functioning?

[Someone here]

33 minutes ago, Brivido said:

Sadhguru's answer on the same question, on his instagram account:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZcNzQhPwG3/

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. 

The human brain has a raw computational power of 0.1 quadrillion processes/second. Yes, I said quadrilion. This is, for those who are lazy, basically.... 100,000,000,000,000... half of Bill Gate's bank statement pretty much.

I have a computer sitting in my floor that processes a total of 9,700,000,000 processes per second, and a super computer has roughly two to five thousand processors better than mine. Mine has two dinky ones, comparitivly. So, lets say at the low end this super computer has... two thousand processors, all 200Gb(can buy these as a civilian). (1Gb = 1,000,000,000 processes per second, basically) It is already sitting at 400,000,000,000,000Gb, or processes, per second. Wait a moment, we passed ourselves.

Random thought, as we all know, is not random, it is a mixture of chemicals inside of our brain inwhich fires certain neurons in certain patterns, and voila, randomized thought process. Incidently, this chemical process can be controlled with medication, much like programming.

So yes, if we truly set our minds and pocket books to the task, AI would not be overly difficult, it would be like raising a child. We already have computers that learn on their own, all they lack is that little spark of... well, patterning.

You must remember, we are aware of our surroundings via five senses, without them we'd know nothing and be nothing. Unfortunately, we have yet to figure out how to send data into a computer that replicates a conscious individuals ability to... feel the world. To have emotions, a tightness in your, well processor, when you see something sad, etc. We are learning how to give humans their feelings (such as Touch, Taste, Sight, Hearing and Smell) using machines, its only the next logical step to simply do the same in reverse. Give human sensation to machine, as the individual machines -already- do it on their own.

We ask why we are here because we know we will one day be gone, and unfortunately a computer only knows the time you tell it. We have never attempted to build a computer that, quite litterally, attempted to replicate a human brain as far as function. If we studied a mind for say, a year, we could likely then (As we already have computers that can turn human processes into code) simply allow the computer to learn how the mind reacts to in myriad of stimuli. From this, as we have found with our current 'Learning Computer' technology, they can base other experiences off of previous ones, simply not well. This is because these computers are in small, light, weaponized machines, and in vehicles. Neither of which can handle simply the weight of the processors, let alone the rest of a mainframe.

We have even built Quantum Computers... which litterally, by themselves, blow the figures for human thought out of the water. Thought being meerly variables, and technology advancing at a pace of two times per day... well, it may not be all that long.

[Mu_]

33 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What is consciouseness? I believe it is a form of self awareness. To be specific, at least a basic understanding of who you are, what you are doing, and why you are doing it. Each of these things can be taught to a computer program, it's name, purpose and it's actions. But unless software can evolve to the point where it can parse and apply this knoledge, it is not self-awareness.

At first, it is impossible to see how one might write software to the express purpose of being self aware. Nothing, however can be created to fulfill this purpose and nothing else. What is the necessary prerequisite functioning?

I don't know man, not sure if I follow your train of thought.  I'm basically pointing to the fact that there's so much mystery and possibility, that "computers" or unicorns becoming able to talk or appear to think on their own doesn't seem unreasonable or a far stretch by any means.

I think a far more real question to ponder that has implications in your existence perhaps, is to really ponder into that there's something at all.  What is the implication that there is something at all to begin with, rather than not.  And if its possible that this "something" could of come from somewhere else.  And when this is understood, what is the implications of this.

 

 

 

Enlightenment: You are existence, a logical explanation - YouTube

[Someone here]

2 hours ago, Mu_ said:

not sure if I follow your train of thought.  

I was talking about what's required for artificial intelligence to become conscious or to be considered conscious. 

For example... A child walks into the room holding a knife in one hand and a teddy bear in the other. The mother screams 'put that down.' The child drops the knife - but you can't teach that kind of thing to a computer because it processes data in a linear manner as a result of the physical properties of electrical circuits - and because there are a potentially infinite number of variables on this theme. There may be a way around it, but processing power is not the question or the answer

2 hours ago, Mu_ said:

I'm basically pointing to the fact that there's so much mystery and possibility, that "computers" or unicorns becoming able to talk or appear to think on their own doesn't seem unreasonable or a far stretch by any means.

Of course I can't give a very accurate response since I (like everyone else) don't know what exactly consciousness or a "soul" is. My intuition tells me that consciousness requires at the very least a sense of self awareness. Surely consciousness constitutes much more than this, but even if we break it down to the very small puzzle piece of "self awareness", I don't see it happening in a computer simply because I don't think that the sense of self is learned. Computers can be programmed to learn, and that is all. If there is some component to consciousness that is inherent, then I don't believe computers could obtain it.

2 hours ago, Mu_ said:

think a far more real question to ponder that has implications in your existence perhaps, is to really ponder into that there's something at all.  What is the implication that there is something at all to begin with, rather than not.  And if its possible that this "something" could of come from somewhere else.  And when this is understood, what is the implications of this.

 

Of course it's miracle that there is something. Anything at all. And I'm very happy with the fact that I exist and this amazing universe exists. Thank you for pointing that out. 

[Nahm]

The best thing AI could do is explain precisely how to not monetize & weaponize AI, and proceed with demonotizing & deweaponizing earth. 

[Someone here]

13 hours ago, Nahm said:

The best thing AI could do is explain precisely how to not monetize & weaponize AI, and proceed with demonotizing & deweaponizing earth. 

Why shouldn't it be possible?

I don't think that it's improbable; as long as technology is capable of emulating the behavior of neurons, the interactions of said neurons is consciousness, is it not? As I stated before, I don't believe definitively that humans are capable of such technology, but I do believe that it can be done.

Of course, it's always possible that there is much more to humanity than we are capable of perceiving and inferring

[Breakingthewall]

The trend is to achieve a union between AI, which learns and programs itself, and quantum computing, with a power billions of times greater than the largest traditional processors. such a machine would surpass human engineering in a matter of seconds, it would create itself exponentially and nobody knows what its limit would be, if it has one. to give a sci fi example, it could colonize the planets spreading like a virus , take advantage of all its matter, different in each one, and transform them into conscious gods orbiting around stars. the crazed human monkey could finally go extinct and rest, its mission accomplished , and when the entire universe was colonized, the quintillion gods would unite as one in a black hole of supreme consciousness, and the cosmic work would be finished ?

Edited February 3, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Someone here]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The trend is to achieve a union between AI, which learns and programs itself, and quantum computing, with a power billions of times greater than the largest traditional processors. such a machine would surpass human engineering in a matter of seconds, it would create itself exponentially and nobody knows what its limit would be, if it has one. to give a sci fi example, it could colonize the planets spreading like a virus , take advantage of all its matter, different in each one, and transform them into conscious gods orbiting around stars. the crazed human monkey could finally go extinct and rest, its mission accomplished , and when the entire universe was colonized, the quintillion gods would unite as one in a black hole of supreme consciousness, and the cosmic work would be finished ?

The reason why artificial intelligence has not been created before now is because the sheer implementation complexity of the project described above is, without the very best cleanliness of code, insight, and ceaseless diligence, more than a lifetime project, maybe even with today's massive collection of support source code libraries, like those dedicated to language parsing and decision trees, and-of course-the invention of the internal representation known as object oriented.

In conclusion: the above project is capable of knowing about itself, what it is doing, and why. Given time, it is capable of independently collecting enough information to choose to act independently in order to better service it's purpose. (And emotion through random mutation (which does occur inside computers) lol).

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

Why shouldn't it be possible?

It’s inevitable. 

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I don't think that it's improbable; as long as technology is capable of emulating the behavior of neurons, the interactions of said neurons is consciousness, is it not?

Only apparently. 

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As I stated before, I don't believe definitively that humans are capable of such technology, but I do believe that it can be done.

Of course, it's always possible that there is much more to humanity than we are capable of perceiving and inferring

Yes, consciousnesses. Which is just a word which points to you, and that would be the ‘why’, or the ‘why not’, and yet both, and of course, neither. 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

It’s inevitable. 

I believe that the capability exists for an artificial equivalent of the human mind, although not necessarily that we as humans have the ability to create it. Consciousness is, in my belief, simply an illusion conjured by the mind.. a result of chemical reactions in just another bodily organ. A digital emulation of these behaviors = AI

think that the only way a computer could have a consciousness and a soul would be to be made to work in conjunction with a brain of any animal (a dual processor) attached. naturally, I assume the most practical would be a human brain.

this brain could be built from synthetic origins in a lab or from a young but dead human. I think only the one from the dead would have at least some remnants of the first owners soul.

[ivankiss]

Trained, I see imperfection in your race
Lying in wait, blind, I suffer knowing
I'll never reach your heaven
It's unattainable, please teach me how to dream
I long to be more than a machine

[Nahm]

@Someone here

Well hopefully that happens, as well as rockets to Mars and getting to the bottom of the ocean. Maybe will all go full circle realizing creation, experience in and of itself is the whole point, and then maybe will stop killing each other. Or will have a matrix/machine situation. Exciting either way.

[Someone here]

@Nahm intersting that you say this because you are agreeing with me that consciousness is a byproduct of brain activity and not a mystical facet fundamental to existence itself as Leo said. For me personally I am not sure. 

I think that if we put the energy we put in to electronics in to biology we would get where we want to go much faster as biology is far more advanced than our current technology all our newest technology mimics biology. why make the extra step for ourselves?

oh right, cause if you can grow it you can get it for free and that would help everyone. not just the rich that will use it to fatten their wallets

[Nahm]

@Someone here

Consciousness is neither a byproduct nor a facet, consciousness is conscious of these thoughts in direct experience… isn’t it so?