How deeply can You awaken?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, softlyblossoming said:

I was planning on doing precisely that – Buddhist meditation – on the psychedelics. What should I do instead?

That should be very effective.

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

Your senses are biased. It depends on what you mean by effective. If living the good life is one’s aim, meditation and even some Buddhism are extremely powerful technologies. If the aim is God, in isolation these are probably not enough. The thing is, “most people” are looking to live the good life. Therefore, meditation and Buddhism are wildly effective. 

The goal is max consciousness.

The good life comes after clear seeing.

If you have more modest goals then don't let me get in your way.

[Consilience]

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The goal is max consciousness.

The good life comes after clear seeing.

If you have more modest goals then don't let me get in your way.

I'm speaking for others, not myself. What I observe is most people do not want max consciousness, they aren't interested in reaching some permanent exalted state, they're merely interested in living a good, meaningful, fulfilling life. This can be achieved without max consciousness. Meditation is perhaps the single most effective technique towards actualizing this aim. 

And since you're bringing up clear seeing, let's be clear - an exalted, fleeting, impermanent, sacred, empty, God-Realized state that shares the same fundamental essence as taking a morning shit is not intrinsically more clear than any other state when Clarity with a capital C is realized. There is something deeply fundamental missing in your metaphysical model. Obviously you'll disagree with this and I don't even disagree with striving after these states both with psychedelics and meditation both, but clinging to them is just another form of bondage and existential ignorance. 

But again, most people just want authentic happiness. Meditation is an amazing practice towards moving along this axis, even if the pinnacle is never reached.

A good, meaningful, fulfilling life is achievable without psychedelics. To preach otherwise is not only wildly disempowering to your audience, but comes from a place of ignorance, delusion, and falsehood. 

[Mosess]

3 hours ago, Mosess said:

If there is a way where we can find the type/s of brain that gets quickly adjusted to figuring out inconsistencies in consciousness while maintaining the sustainability required for maintaining those findings, then psychedelics would be perfect. My guess would be a type of individual which is extremely adaptable to new situations.

@Consilience

 

[Consilience]

@Mosess Not sure if that's a reply, a question, or something else. 

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, Consilience said:

A good, meaningful, fulfilling life is achievable without psychedelics

That is simply not the focus of my work.

[Mosess]

@Consilience i meant to tag leo, not you hahaha

@Leo Gura

some people say meditation>psychedelics

some says psychedelics>meditation

it all depends on the individual

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Mosess

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

That is simply not the focus of my work.

Shouldn't the highest goal be max consciouness embodied? And isn't the only way to do that through sober spiritual practices?

Edited December 12, 2021 by Salvijus

[Consilience]

4 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Shouldn't the highest goal be max consciouness embodied? And isn't the only way to do that through sober spiritual practices?

I think Ive seen Leo make a distinction between understanding vs embodiment. To him, these are very distinct facets of the spiritual path and Actualized.org focuses more on the understanding component. 
 

I think there is wisdom there, but I also see a deep wisdom in unifying the concepts of embodiment and understanding in the sense that true understanding is embodiment. 
 

But… you know… #relativity 

[Mosess]

17 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Shouldn't the highest goal be max consciouness embodied? And isn't the only way to do that through sober spiritual practices?

I think max consciousness is reached more effectively through psychedelics, while embodiment through sitting still and accepting

[Salvijus]

@Consilience i honestly don't see much value in peak moments of understanding. It doesn't feel much different than intelectual understanding. I can intelectually understand Im god and feel special about it but I'm still the same fool existencially. Exisėencially Im at the same place exacly. It's the same thing with peak glimpses. Makes a person believe as he has attained something and now he's better then everbody else. But still that person is the same fool as before if he didn't embody any of that state of consciouness.

The way I see it is that there is no way around sober spiritual practice. Embodyment > peak glimpses. So you can dislike and shit on sober spiritual practices all you want for being ineffective. Yet there's no other way around it. It's the only way to achieve what is truly important. Evolution of the soul and embodyment of the highest truth.

Idk, if this makes sense tho.

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

3 minutes ago, Mosess said:

I think max consciousness is reached more effectively through psychedelics, while embodiment through sitting still and accepting

So in the end if embodyment is more important. Than meditation or other spiritual practice that rise baseline awareness is the highest priority by this logic.

[Mosess]

Just now, Salvijus said:

So in the end if embodyment is more important. Than meditation or other spiritual practice that rise baseline awareness is the highest priority by this logic.

They both compliment each other

[Mosess]

If your consciousness is shit low wtf are you embodying

If your embodiment is shit low than wtf is your consciousness/understanding worth

[Salvijus]

4 minutes ago, Mosess said:

They both compliment each other

If psychedelics rise baseline awareness i would agree. But if psychedelics don't, then they don’t serve the highest purpose and goal. Only those things that contribute to the embodyment of higher awareness are relevent. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Salvijus

[Raptorsin7]

15 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Consilience i honestly don't see much value in peak moments of understanding. It doesn't feel much different than intelectual understanding. I can intelectually understand Im god and feel special about it but I'm still the same fool existencially. Exisėencially Im at the same place exacly. It's the same thing with peak glimpses. Makes a person believe as he has attained something and now he's better then everbody else. But still that person is the same fool as before if he didn't embody any of that state of consciouness.

The way I see it is that there is no way around sober spiritual practice. Embodyment > peak glimpses. So you can dislike and shit on sober spiritual practices all you want for being ineffective. Yet there's no other way around it. It's the only way to achieve what is truly important. Evolution of the soul and embodyment of the highest truth.

Idk, if this makes sense tho.

 

It makes sense to me and I agree 100%

Unless you value embodiment and your sober quality, you have resigned yourself to suffer 99% of the time for the 1% of time where you get your peak understanding.

Fundamentally, what is the point of life. It's to live in harmony moment by moment. Not just have 1/100th of your moments be meaningful and the 99/100 you just reminisce about your past glory 

[Consilience]

9 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

The way I see it is that there is no way around sober spiritual practice. Embodyment > peak glimpses. So you can dislike and shit on sober spiritual practices all you want for being ineffective. Yet there's no other way around it. It's the only way to achieve what is truly important. Evolution of the soul and embodyment of the highest truth.

Idk, if this makes sense tho.

It makes sense to me. I agree. I do think with technological advancements and perhaps a merging of psychedelics, neuroscience, and meditation, we could discover a new technology that speeds up the development of the brain regions associated with spiritual development such as concentration, mindfulness, etc. 

[Salvijus]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

reminisce about your past glory 

Lol.

 

[Salvijus]

4 minutes ago, Consilience said:

we could discover a new technology that speeds up the development of the brain regions associated with spiritual development such as concentration, mindfulness, etc. 

Like 6pack abs simulator? ? 

I don't think it will work personaly. That's just my hunch, I don't have any arguments for it.

 

 

[Raptorsin7]

10 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Like 6pack abs simulator? ? 

I don't think it will work personaly. That's just my hunch, I don't have any arguments for it.

 

 

It's like how working through trauma and changing your perspectives can deepen your meditation practice.

I think its possible to combine many technologies that will help facilitate deeper insight from meditation etc.

It's like you and me both do self inquiry. But you feel your being light up and vibrate, but I just feel the density and tension in the head. How do you account for that difference 

[Salvijus]

9 minutes ago, Consilience said:

we could discover a new technology that speeds up the development of the brain regions associated with spiritual development such as concentration, mindfulness, etc

It's like inventing a technology that grows trees in full size in three days. Maybe it's possible but I think there would be something very wrong with that tree.

Human evolution takes time, it's growing in its appropriate pace no need to haten it. It's already growing the way it should be growing. In accordance to natural laws of nature and tao. That's how i feel about it. 

You can also turn 3year old infant into 60year old wise man in 3days using artificial advanced technology. But something inside is deepy against this kind of interference with nature.