Does It really take THAT much time and effort to develop confidence and extroversion?

[Javfly33]

@soos_mite_ah I don´t think I´m an introvert. When I feel "safe" with some particular friends or family, I´m expressive, high-energy, joyful.

Overall Deep down I want to talk and express myself like crazy but I have social anxiety in some situations and fear of expressing and asserting myself. So everybody thinks I´m an "introvert". Which makes it even more frustrating because deep inside I want to explode. I just don't allow it myself.

 

[soos_mite_ah]

4 hours ago, JonasVE12 said:

Thing is that you don't really know if you are introverted or not until you have removed all of your interpersonal shame. Many introverts feel they get energy when they are alone because that's the only time their nervous system gets time to relax. A very large percentage of introverts are simply introvert because they have supressed shame. These people, when they go out, have to force themself to go out because of anticipated resistance that drives them into apathy, shame and fear. Their mind and nervous system is wrapped around the toxic shame they are identified with. 

I agree with the notion that sometimes it's healthy, and even necessary, at times to swing the pendulum on the other hand to get out of your comfort zone and integrate parts of yourself you never really explored before. At the same time I disagree with the notion that a very large percentage of introverts are that way because of suppressed shame. I would say a certain degree (maybe 30 ish percent) but definitely not the majority. I think this feeds into the whole extrovert bias I was talking about in my previous comment. I would say that about the same percentage of extroverts also have suppressed shame when it comes to socializing but it may manifest in a different way (think maybe using partying and superficial interaction to avoid dealing with the fear of opening up). Social shame is not a mainly introvert phenomenon. 

4 hours ago, JonasVE12 said:

To really explore and expand your personality to the point you are not contracted any more by negative supressed emotions needs a very specific approach that involves facing resistance and stepping into tension you are resisting to step into. Then releasing all the triggered emotions surrounding this level of tension you are resisting. Therapy and such can help, but for these people, the real growth lies in an embodiment practice that involves going out and getting triggered for a very long time until you are able to relax, let go, release and integrate & embody higher emotions such as courage, peace and acceptance. This shift in a shame based introvert will set them free to pursue whatever he wants authetically. He is not contracted by shame anymore so he is essentially fully free and authentic in his pursuits.

Therapy isn't the end all be all, I agree with that. And if a person were to get help for this sort of thing, I'm sure that any therapist would also agree with this as well. There is something that is called exposure therapy. It's basically when you take a trigger and keep introducing it in manageable amounts until it stops being a trigger. And from what I'm understanding from the OP, is that @Javfly33 is trying to do a form of that by exposing himself to socializing to burn through his anxiety (@Javfly33 correct me if I'm mistaken). My thing is that there is a difference between exposing yourself and overexposing yourself. The later can double down on limiting beliefs and make anxiety much worse because you're taking too much at once. And idk where he is coming from but going out every weekend for hours at a time for 2-3 years doesn't seem like a realistic goal can lead to burnout really quickly or worse, creating more problems. IMO this isn't a sustainable strategy. 

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I don´t think I´m an introvert. When I feel "safe" with some particular friends or family, I´m expressive, high-energy, joyful.

Overall Deep down I want to talk and express myself like crazy but I have social anxiety in some situations and fear of expressing and asserting myself. So everybody thinks I´m an "introvert". Which makes it even more frustrating because deep inside I want to explode. I just don't allow it myself.

I remember a few years back having this realization that I wasn't an introvert rather I'm an extrovert with social anxiety. I was in a similar space as you were. If this is something that feels authentic for you, go for it. I remember for me, when I swung the pendulum to the other end, it was uncomfortable at first but going that route and integrating what I needed to helped me figure out where my own personal homeostasis is (extrovert-introvert balance if you will). 

I guess what I'm trying to express is my experiences and takeaways so that this journey may manifest in a healthy and productive way. I have journaled about this in the past which I don't mind sharing and I think you might be able to benefit a lot from it by seeing what someone who went on a previous path has also encountered. I'm not saying that your journey will be exactly the same, but I do think having an idea of where you might be headed can't hurt. 

I simply urge you to not see introversion as the enemy (regardless of whether or not you actually are an introvert) and get side tracked into fixing what isn't broken. Focus on dealing with issues around social anxiety and exploring different sides of yourself rather than changing who you are on a fundamental level. I think that can help with aligning with authenticity so you are more confident in who you are and so that it isn't like you're wearing a mask that doesn't quite fit and that people can see through and cringe at. 

[soos_mite_ah]

Here are a few posts from my journals based on my personal experiences that I think are relevant to anyone who resonates with this thread: 

On 9/7/2021 at 2:10 PM, soos_mite_ah said:

Redefining Common Points of Self Improvement

If you have been consuming self help content long enough, or hell even if you aren't super into self help (you probably encountered this anyway because people who do these things don't stfu about it) and you're trying to optimize your habits and life style, chances are you probably ran into some or all of the following: 

• The benefits of waking up at 5 am 
• Clean eating through a restrictive diet either through juice cleansing, keto, veganism, etc. 
• Working out everyday for an hour 
• Bettering your social skills 
• Reading a book every week for a year

And while all of these things are important, I think it's important to acknowledge the people who no matter how hard they try, they simply can't sustain that habit. And no I'm not going to put the blame on a lack of vision, a lack of discipline, laziness, or ego backlash. I don't think our human nature is something we need to fight rather it's something that we need to work with to find what is optimal for us individually. 

Bettering your social skills 

I think before getting started on this goal, it's important to take into consideration what exactly you mean by bettering your social skills. I'm going to be talking from my own experience but I always had this certain image in my head of what having social skills and being socially competent looks like. And that image is someone who is incredibly outgoing, clicks with everyone, and is the life of the party. I always found myself falling short of that and then I decided that I was going to redefine what it means to have decent social skills. Because not everyone is going to be the life of the party and honestly thank god because that would be waaaay too overwhelming. Instead, I think we should have more of an emphasis on learning to be vulnerable and authentic, learning how the empathize with people personally and systemically, being socially informed and learning how to act accordingly in a way that is assertive and empathetic. It's learning how be confident without being egotistical, to learn how to advocate for ourselves and have boundaries, to learning how to navigate different contexts, different power dynamics, different types of relationships, and different situations. Not to mention it's about being self aware and socially aware to where you can read the room.  You don't have to be over the top assertive, out going or for a lack of a better way of putting it "being alpha." Just because you are those things, doesn't meant that you're socially competent. We know people who are outgoing, who click with everyone, and who are the life of the party but are pretty insufferable because of their lack of self awareness. 

And because I had this limited image and I never measured up to it, for a long time I thought there was something wrong with me socially. No I still don't click with everyone, but I do know how to deal with different people in different contexts and I do know what to look out for to find my own tribe. No, I'm still not super outgoing, but I am still confident in myself and I know how to step back, evaluate a situation, and act accordingly.  And no, I'm not the life of the party and honestly, it's probably because I'm not a party person anyways and I prefer to watch a movie with a couple of friends and just talk for the rest of the night. And when I finally let go of this image of what social competence looks like, it was honestly a weight that was lifted off my shoulders in terms of the ways I judge and critique myself. 

 

[Guest EmptyVase]

@Javfly33

0) Awareness.

1) Be aware of how you feel about a certain topic.

2) Inspect and express what you think about that topic. Notice that expression by itself makes you feel slightly better.

Alternative 1) Be aware of your thoughts about a certain topic.
Alternative 2) Inspect and express how those thoughts feel. Notice that expression by itself makes you feel slightly better.

3) Choose thoughts, which feel better to you - your behavior changes accordingly (feel free to utilize the emotional scale by Abraham Hicks for this, but you can also "freestyle" your way in choosing thoughts/perspectives which feel better).

4) Repeat. Always one thought at a time. Step by step, feeling better, and better, and better - even if that sometimes means facing challenging emotions, the general trend is going up the emotional scale.

If you want to grind, go skating. The point to do this work is to live a joyful life, not to constantly go through a meat grinder.

[StarStruck]

I'm still not close where I want to be with confidence but there is no need to reinvent to wheel. 

Confidence is intelligence actualized; the ability to think straight, manifest, learn from mistakes and execute. Everything should be tuned to execution though. 

I find the model 6 sigma useful. Confidence is like going to the gym. You have to do but also know how to do it.

Edited November 1, 2021 by StarStruck

[Javfly33]

17 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I think that can help with aligning with authenticity so you are more confident in who you are and so that it isn't like you're wearing a mask that doesn't quite fit and that people can see through and cringe at. 

@soos_mite_ah Sorry but I do think you are kinda of insulting me right here.

I get it. You don't understand what it means to feel so far from being confident and attractive as a man, to the point of your crush taking away the knife from your hands while you are trying to cut your own neck in front of her and his BF after a full night of wallowing in pain while you hear them having amazing sex and you feeling so terrible about yourself. When you experience that, maybe you will understand. 

So when you say "you're wearing a mask that doesn't quite fit" please let me laugh. The one that fits now fucking hurts. So it might don't quite be that good for me after all. 

Think about it. Fundamentally I am awareness. Everything else is a costume. So why not chose the best survival adapted costume? 

I have no problem in annihilating everything of "me". The problem is "how". Literally My best moments in life have been when I take drugs and there's no personality. Apart from drugs experiences, I CRAVE those moments with anything; food, movies, caffeine, being concentrated on a fun /interesting task to do, meditating, etc.  So I laugh when people talk about "conserving" authenticity. Why would I want to conserve something that brings so much pain? 

 

 

 

 

[soos_mite_ah]

3 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I get it. You don't understand what it means to feel so far from being confident and attractive as a man, to the point of your crush taking away the knife from your hands while you are trying to cut your own neck in front of her and his BF after a full night of wallowing in pain while you hear them having amazing sex and you feeling so terrible about yourself. When you experience that, maybe you will understand. 

If this really happened, I think you need much more help than going out often for 2-3 years. 

[Jacob Morres]

2 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

If this really happened, I think you need much more help than going out often for 2-3 years

Ayo ?

[Lyubov]

5 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

If this really happened, I think you need much more help than going out often for 2-3 years. 

I don’t want to sound insensitive and judgmental. This is pretty dark though and if this did indeed happen I think therapy with a compassionate and trained professional is the best course at this stage. Socializing is triggering enough as it is even for stable and functional people who are trying to improve in this domain. If one has emotional problems then going out isn’t going to address the root issues that need to be worked on. 

[Karmadhi]

@soos_mite_ah 

On 10/31/2021 at 6:04 PM, soos_mite_ah said:

I also agree with much of this. There is a bias towards extroversion in the west but it's just that, a bias. I remember reading somewhere that some cultures have a bias towards introversion where they tend to see extroverts as people who lack discipline and impulse control and as a result tend to be less responsible sn more explosive. 

But yeah introvert =/= shy or antisocial. Most of the introverts in my life (myself included) tend to still be social and able to keep up with quality relationships. The only difference I would say between my introverted friends and my extroverted friends are simply how we recreate. I have a couple of acquaintances who love going to raves but they and I know damn well that this isnt a place to drag me into because I wont be having fun in that setting lol.  

I also agree with how developing social skills, humor, and confidence isnt turning yourself into an extrovert. Again, that is that extrovert bias that comes into play again because it's quite obvious that extroverts dont have a monopoly on these traits.

However, where I would differ is to say that extroverts have an easier time developing these traits. Introverts just often have a different way of going about developing these traits. Some of the funniest people I know lean on the quieter side. They have their own style of humor that reflects their authentic perspective. I know a lot of confident and socially adept people who are also really quiet and much of their confidence and ability to socialize comes from things like empathizing and listening really well and not feeling this need to seek validation. And because they know and understand themselves as well as others, they also have no problem being assertive and setting boundaries as necessary. 

Things like humor, confidence, and social skills can look different on introverts and that is perfectly fine. Not only is it fine, its necessary because it would really suck if everyone had the same qualities and skills. The thing is that it's important to work with yourself to improve yourself instead of working against yourself. 

Great response. Thank you!