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Alfonsoo

Thoughts on why abort (or not) a baby due to a serious prenatal defect?

18 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I'm talking about grave deformities, crippling neurological problems and al sorts of prenatal defects. Even something as simple as a kid being bullied due to having an extra finger etc. 

Im doing research about wether its ethical to let a kid who's going to have an extreme health and psychological problems be born. Its for a school project and I have to present opposite postures. One one side, the no abortion under any circumstance (that's easy to explain) and the other side (abort under certain circumstances).

Oh, also consider how the parents/families life drastically changes and all that.

What are your thoughts on the topic? Please try to give some easier to understand arguments as this this is for school hehe.  The non-dual riddled part of the discussion would be very difficult to integrate in a school project. However, feel free to write it anyways, im interested in all of your answers.

Edited by Alfonsoo

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Gonna depend a lot on how late the abortion is and how serious the defects are.

6th finger is not a big deal, but something like mental retardation is probably not worth living.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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@Alfonsoo

Go prior to what’s required for the the report, much, much deeper. When you mention nondual it’s intuitive. When you add ‘riddled’ it isn’t, it’s self defeating. Contemplate why people are talking about pro life and pro choice and never getting anywhere. Since when is that even a thing, as in a topic? How’d the first word of it arise? Why? As you contemplate, when some thoughts or perspectives feel off, probe deeply into feeling… what feels off and why  exactly. Don’t settle for the debating. 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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Posted (edited)

Interestingly, my cousin is against eliminating disabilities in future generations because she equates it with Nazi style eugenics. I wouldn’t say I’m in agreement with her.

I honestly don’t think there’s any objective answer, the only real question in my mind is would you want to take care of a disabled child and/or witness their suffering, which may be greater or less than average, depending on their condition.

im sure some people’s greatest gift in life has been their being forced to care for a disabled child.

Edited by Bob Seeker

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I'm basically pro-choice for all abortion within a time limit (although I don't know enough about the subject to define exactly what the time limit should be). But I think it's very unethical to have different rules for disabled or even slightly different (eg 6 fingers), to make it easier to abort them than "normal" foetuses. Just give all women the right to an abortion, and allow them to make their choice in private, no questions asked. 

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Posted (edited)

From a Christian perspective i would say it is immoral to about a foetus if you know it has disabilities. Because a single person can’t understand how God operates. 
 

Look at people with dwarfism who are able to live a happy life. Our war veterans who become disabled. Maybe their role in the universe is to inspire people. Maybe a disabled person will learn profound life lessons through his unique perspective that he can share with the rest of the world. 
 

I think we can learn through a story like the Book of Job that even when a person has lost everything, including his health. And there is immense suffering, there can always be a  path forward to live a blessed life. And that’s the point of inspirational stories; no matter how bad things get, there is always a way forward to a better life.

 

Edited by vizual

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40 minutes ago, silene said:

I'm basically pro-choice for all abortion within a time limit (although I don't know enough about the subject to define exactly what the time limit should be). But I think it's very unethical to have different rules for disabled or even slightly different (eg 6 fingers), to make it easier to abort them than "normal" foetuses. Just give all women the right to an abortion, and allow them to make their choice in private, no questions asked. 

Obviously it's the parents who would be making the ultimate decision, not some government checklist of disabilities.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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8 hours ago, vizual said:

From a Christian perspective i would say it is immortal to about a foetus if you know it has disabilities.

I think it is even more immoral to force someone to live a life of disability and suffering. I mean, maybe once they come to they world they’ve got no choice but to enjoy life whatever way they can. Perhaps if you’re enlightened you understand it really doesn’t matter but how can you even get to that point if you’ve got some crippling  mental retardation or e you’re too broken down emotionally due to some other birth defect. I think the key point here is forcing someone into living that kind of life.

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@Nahm @Leo Gura

 

Besides the procedure getting more risky the more you wait, why do you think setting a time limit for an abortion (12 weeks, 24, etc) is such a polemic subject.

And why are blue spiral, christians, and people like that are so neurotically fixed on no abortion under any circumstances?

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13 minutes ago, Alfonsoo said:

@Nahm @Leo Gura

Besides the procedure getting more risky the more you wait, why do you think setting a time limit for an abortion (12 weeks, 24, etc) is such a polemic subject.

And why are blue spiral, christians, and people like that are so neurotically fixed on no abortion under any circumstances?

It's all been politicized and turned into ideology.

I don't mind a late-term ban if it would appease the right-wing and settle this issue once and for all. But it won't. They are too dogmatic for such a reasonable compromise.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's all been politicized and turned into ideology.

They just created sides to pick

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1 hour ago, Alfonsoo said:

I think it is even more immoral to force someone to live a life of disability and suffering. I mean, maybe once they come to they world they’ve got no choice but to enjoy life whatever way they can. Perhaps if you’re enlightened you understand it really doesn’t matter but how can you even get to that point if you’ve got some crippling  mental retardation or e you’re too broken down emotionally due to some other birth defect. I think the key point here is forcing someone into living that kind of life.


People who are born in corrupted Africa with no food. Where rape, malnutrition, murder, theft is the norm. These people probably suffer more than  people that are born with a disability in a rich western country.

 The thing is that i don’t know how to even judge the quality of someone else’s life. There are also a lot of people who are born in a wealthy family without any disabilities. But they get caught up in drugs at a young age and eventually die from an overdose after a miserable  descent into hell.

 

 

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To me this looks more like choosing the lesser of the evils, rather than choosing something good. Killing a foetus isn't good, and unwanted pregnancies aren't good, so I'm inclined to a compromise position.

It's also about who makes the decision: the individual, the government, the church, the courts, doctors etc. Heaping all choice and responsibility onto a single category isn't a good idea for a human species which exists on multiple levels from the individual to the collective. 

So we need choices within boundaries for all elements. 

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7 hours ago, Alfonsoo said:

@Nahm @Leo Gura

 

Besides the procedure getting more risky the more you wait, why do you think setting a time limit for an abortion (12 weeks, 24, etc) is such a polemic subject.

Because of the denial. 

Quote

And why are blue spiral, christians, and people like that are so neurotically fixed on no abortion under any circumstances?

Cause they hold more denial than say, yellow or turquoise. 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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On 8.10.2021 at 8:25 AM, Alfonsoo said:

And why are blue spiral, christians, and people like that are so neurotically fixed on no abortion under any circumstances?

In their world, abortions aren't necessary, because women should marry and get pregnant. Everything else disturbs their world-view. They might even see it as punishment for women sleeping around. Plus, modern stage blue people know that they are perceived heartless by stage green people. With the abortion topic they can do something they love: turn the tables and call stage green heartless.

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