What's alternative to prayer?

[mandyjw]

@Someone here Do whatever you want and are inspired to do, devoutly, passionately. If I sit down and paint a landscape on canvas it's the same thing as an inspired prayer from the heart. I might be imagining it, but what difference does that make? 

[The0Self]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@The0Self do you practice any kind of 'prayer' aside from meditation practice? If so what techniques do you recommend? 

I’ve practiced all sorts of techniques. Devised my own. Too many to even remember. One I liked was listening to God. Just listen to the silence. If you hear anything, listen for the silence behind it.

Or another powerful one: sit with a question, very still and patiently, let its feeling (not merely words) pervade awareness, and do your absolute best to NOT answer it.

Or self inquiry as taught by Ramana Maharshi / Rupert Spira. Takes a lot of patience but it can be rather incredible, and it’s sort of like prayer. I think a prayer Rupert Spira has offered is “God, replace me with you.”

Edited August 29, 2021 by The0Self

[Someone here]

@mandyjw @The0Self

I never intended to be an atheist. I never decided. Growing up as a hindu.. I was encouraged to experiment with prayer, meditation, and spirituality of all stripes.

Something might be worth mentioning.. I did go to church, to mass, to Hindu temple, to synagogue, and to my mid-Missouri town’s lone mosque. And ... I loved it. I loved religion wherever I found it. I coughed through the incense, fumbled the right-to-left prayer books, and soaked in the powerful peace that can happen when faith communities come together.

The problem was, when I looked honestly into my own heart, there just wasn’t any “religion” there, in the way I had been taught to think about it. When it comes down to it, I lack, quite simply and sincerely, any belief in God, an afterlife, or anything not earthly, observable. Not because I ever decided those other beliefs were wrong, or unreasonable, or even a bad fit for me, but simply because I don’t believe them.

I never intended to be an atheist, but here I am. My love of religion, my commitment to religious community, and my personal atheism exist side by side, deep and unforced, beliefs that I find written into my very bones.

Given my non-belief, prayer has never meant a lot to me. Can an atheist pray? Or perhaps more importantly, why would an atheist want to? I don’t know how you would define “prayer,” but I think for most people it includes something like, “talking to God,” or some kind of communicating with the Holy outside of yourself. It’s a question not just for me, but for our entire, theologically diverse, faith community.

[snowyowl]

@Someone here It seems like you enjoyed the religious experiences in the churches, temples etc but the belief side of it is absent for you. Me too.  imo this is a big reason for the decline in mainstream religion here in western Europe in churches which stress beliefs and creeds over direct experience. Hence the interest in Eastern, Pagan and New Age spirituality, but there's no reason why the Christian churches can't adapt if they want to. 

[The0Self]

@Someone here lol I don’t believe in God either. True prayer imo has nothing to do with belief in God. What we’re referring to as God is not the same — it can’t be believed in. It’s all there is. Call that whatever you want.

[Someone here]

@The0SelfBut, with no God, what’s the difference between prayer and just reflecting on a concept in the privacy of your own head? And when I need help, or want to express gratitude, it would feel silly to turn to a listening ear I don’t believe actually exists. Why pray when no one’s there to hear me?

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Someone here

[The0Self]

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

@The0SelfBut, with no God, what’s the difference between prayer and just reflecting on a concept in the privacy of your own head? And when I need help, or want to express gratitude, it would feel silly to turn to a listening ear I don’t believe actually exists. Why pray when no one’s there to hear me?

 

 

Oh yeah you wouldn’t pray like that unless you believed in a God outside of you. No such God exists. You are God (or there’s no you, only God), but if you haven’t recognized that, prayer can be used. Inquire into who it is that’s praying — that’s God wearing the ego mask.

The point of prayer at the highest level is realization of union with God / lack of separation between you and God. Because if God exists, you are God, since God by the definition I’m referring to has no other. The means by which this happens is complete and utter stillness of mind.

You may want to become skilled in meditation first, but really they’re kind of the same thing as long as you can produce at least some modest level of well-being at will (getting to that point is the hardest part so don’t worry, it’s normal if you can’t already) — this enables less restlessness and more stillness, which produces more pleasure, which produces more stillness, and so on to an inflection point called jhana where the bliss takes off exponentially and you feel so unimaginably good you basically won’t even believe it — it’s a different order of well-being; shocking, even. Then it’s all over — you’ll never search for happiness primarily outside yourself again.

I’ve heard credible rumors that jhana may not be for everyone, but the important thing is bliss-on-demand, and that is in fact available to everyone with a bit of practice.

Edited August 30, 2021 by The0Self

[hamedsf]

the alternative for prayer is to gain so much inner power within that you have self-confidence up in the sky that you believe strongly that you are god on earth that you can accomplish everything!

[Someone here]

Well not all prayer is the same. I know it’s not the same! There are many who will see what I am calling “prayer” as a ridiculous heresy. And plenty of believers do pray in the sincere belief that God will reach down and alter the world in their favor. Not all prayer is the same. And I think that might be more true than I first realized. Not all prayer is the same.

The person who says, "I pray every day," versus the person who says, “my prayers are with you,” or the one who mouths along with memorized prayers in church—they all mean different things but they are all doing something slightly different. And Christian prayer is different from Muslim prayer, is different from Buddhist prayer, is different from Jewish prayer. And I hadn’t thought atheist prayer was a thing that could exist. But why not.. There can be atheist prayer. I guess I will have to invent a prayer technique specifically for myself. 

[The0Self]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Well not all prayer is the same. I know it’s not the same! There are many who will see what I am calling “prayer” as a ridiculous heresy. And plenty of believers do pray in the sincere belief that God will reach down and alter the world in their favor. Not all prayer is the same. And I think that might be more true than I first realized. Not all prayer is the same.

The person who says, "I pray every day," versus the person who says, “my prayers are with you,” or the one who mouths along with memorized prayers in church—they all mean different things but they are all doing something slightly different. And Christian prayer is different from Muslim prayer, is different from Buddhist prayer, is different from Jewish prayer. And I hadn’t thought atheist prayer was a thing that could exist. But why not.. There can be atheist prayer. I guess I will have to invent a prayer technique specifically for myself. 

Even just wishing all beings including yourself to be happy can be a prayer. Bonus points if you can even get yourself to believe it's having a real effect. Part of spiritual practice ime is practicing the ability to wear worldviews like masks and actually allow yourself to fully imbibe in that worldview, so your being is fluid and empty and you aren't locked into any particular fixed truth -- freedom.

Edited August 30, 2021 by The0Self

[mandyjw]

It's not that this IS a God, and it's not that there's NOT a God. Either of those scenarios would be horribly disappointing. It's not that. 

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Even just wishing all beings including yourself to be happy can be a prayer. Bonus points if you can even get yourself to believe it's having a real effect. Part of spiritual practice ime is practicing the ability to wear worldviews like masks and actually allow yourself to fully imbibe in that worldview, so your being is fluid and empty and you aren't locked into any particular fixed truth -- freedom.

Agreed.

I still don't pray on my own, my spiritual practices don't involve talking when no one but me is there to hear. But I no longer run from prayer. I am learning something. Can an atheist pray, and why would he want to?  today, I will  let the answers to these questions be a little more clear

[Someone here]

@mandyjw it all depends on how you Define "God".

There is not a God until you believe there is. In that way (form) or the other.

I do think that each person is the God of his own existence. You are the main character in your life.

My belief in a separate God in the heavens have pretty much  disappeared years ago. And that's what creates now, a struggle to pray. 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Someone here

[mandyjw]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

@mandyjw it all depends on how you Define "God".

Why would you try to define God? It'd be like trying to murder every single butterfly in the world, just to put them on your walls. 

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Why would you try to define God? 

To be able to relate to him (it) and have a relationship with him (it). 

Like someone said.. I can pray to God but knowing at a higher level that I am simply talking to my higher self. Or is it that God is in fact separated from me. In that case I'm not just talking to myself. 

So prayer, I've gradually come to realize, just isn't for atheists like me. And that’s fine. There are other ways I connect to the sublime and the sacred, but without a belief in God, prayer can’t really be one of them. At least not the traditional way. I have to become like a new prophet and create my own relationship with god in a unique way. 

 

[The Lucid Dreamer]

For me, prayer is simply connecting with Love and the beauty of what is.  And in that process, I am sort of consulting with my “higher self”, if you will, to advise me on what is the best thing to do in any particular situation.  Even if the answer is that there is nothing I can do and I just have to find a way to make peace with what’s going on within myself.  I’ll find the beauty in it.