I feel very down after yesterday's night

[fopylo]

Yesterday in the afternoon me and a couple of people went to the amusement park (we were 3 guys and 6 girls) which was quite nice. The purpose of that was so that me and my friend (or both) can practice our social skills and getting out there socializing.

So basically I wasn't really happy all the time there and it was very hard for me to lead. It was like this one girl (I'll name her O) was leading the group, and she was also younger than all of us in like a year or two. It felt a bit shitty but alright.

So now the night came and we decided to order pizza when we came back to the city, we met at the other friend's house, and things started taking a shift there.

It was all nice and everything and we later went to the basement to have some fun and play games and shit. But then I felt really drained, like it just hit me.

I was really frustrated that my friend (not the one that invited us to his house) was just killing it with O (they were playing billiard meanwhile).

I felt so behind and I really envied his success.

This is my better friend, the one with whom I talk about intimate topics like relationships and friendships kinda stuff. He didn't even read or watch anything about relationships. This guy was acting like such a man. He really made her laugh, he was acting quite dominant towards her, he was able to change moods to be also more serious and real, emotional.

The reason it annoys me is because I just secretly feel I should have been better off:
I am learning about this (watching videos and Leo's videos)
I practice meditation (to ease my mind and connect more with my emotional side)
I do exercise
I am passionate about developing myself
And without bragging, I'm quite attractive and muscular (I've been tolled that as well).

 

So around that time I was just very tired already, and one of the girls just decided we should play an intimate game that we all sit in a circle and ask intimate questions. Now the weirdness is at its start and it will peak in the end.

They asked "when was the last time you cried" and bro, the people seemed to be able to let go quite easily and get in touch with there feelings. How? How the fuck are they able to do it?? I swear to god I was super uncomfortable and very annoyed.

THEY DON'T EVEN GO THROUGH THE HARD MEDITATION WORK THAT I PUT IN!

Man how did this meditation help me? I felt dense, and super frustrated and dead inside that I can't let go my true feelings with other people.

I don't care if they are 'less conscious' than me. They obviously seem to be doing much better. You might say 'but deep deep down they are suffering'. Dude, like, they might be having their own problems but they are just surprisingly better than me at being more open, letting go, mindful and they even don't put in the effort I put.

Oh and also I said one thing and they all tolled me "how cute" after I said that I teared a bit from the beauty of nature. I felt like such a beta and worse.

 

After this frustrating game, things took a very weird turn. They were starting to talk about kinkies and sexual stuff (we didn't even drink). It got to the point of all us taking this BDSM (shows you how much percent you are submissive, dominant, vanilla, slave and more in bed) test and Rice test (shows you how "pure" your mind is).

I felt like such an innocent person and such a beta, low value person. Very bad feeling. The girls were sometimes laughing and even my friend a bit that I asked some questions that I didn't understand their meaning in such a blatant way and they seemed to laugh that I'm "innocent".

After I finished those tests it was just so fucking weird to share results. At that time we were all out in the park already (the only boys are me and my friend, and he was far from us resting on a swing) and 2 of the girls were comparing answers with me and it was uncomfortable so I said to go to my friend so that I feel more comfortable that there's also a guy.

On the way back home we went me, my friend and O. I purposely took the wrong turn and continued with them until my friend's house and then turned back to my house. I did this just so I could go just a little further out my comfort zone. They were quite killing it together and it was hard for me to feel included.

Anyways, I came back very shitty back home, feel very beta and I'm really pissed off and frustrated from this fucking life. Putting all this FUCKING HARD WORK. Know one even cares as much as I do about self actualizing and those topics. I can't stand those people. I always seem to be behind everyone. Always. Once in my lifetime I want to feel like I'm the master of life with all the experience.

[Snuitje]

You seem to compare yourself a lot with other people. Whether or not they meditate and do all this 'hard work' or are in self-actualization is irrelevant. You are your own person with your own journey and your own obstacles. I see a lot of insecurities in you projecting outwards onto those people, I understand that. Try to see the lessons of this night and how you can improve.

You mentioned about emotions and how people can open up so easily and you can't. Well, why is that? Is it shame or guilt, perhaps fear? Find out and go to the root of it.

55 minutes ago, fopylo said:

Oh and also I said one thing and they all tolled me "how cute" after I said that I teared a bit from the beauty of nature. I felt like such a beta and worse.

This has nothing to do with being a "beta."  What you said is something really beautiful. What answer did you expect she/they would give you? Let me suck your dick. No.

58 minutes ago, fopylo said:

 I always seem to be behind everyone. Always. Once in my lifetime I want to feel like I'm the master of life with all the experience.

It's impossible to be behind or in front of other people. You are exactly where you are supposed to be. Maybe map out what it means to be a 'master' of life. This night happened because there were lessons to learn. Learn them and grow.

[Eph75]

Who are you trying to be, and why?

It seems that you are playing a game that you can't win, where there is prestige in how you should or shouldn't be. Where you have preconceived ideas on how things should turn out, and when things don't go as you expect or want then to, then you derail.

Truth is that you derailed yourself long before and the only way to win is not to join in on playing games on someone else's terms.

Maybe you are "innocent", is that bad?

Maybe they said "how cute", is that bad? 

Maybe you aren't Alpha, is that bad?

Why even bother wanting to be labeled Alpha, and disappoint yourself with labels like Beta when things don't go as you desire?

The only thing that matters is to be authentic and not to be ashamed or guilty for being who we are, and owning that. If you are doing things that goes against your values and morale, then you're not authentic, and you need to return to authenticity.

These games, are they authentic would you say?

Authenticity is where we can be confident, it's us playing no other game than the infinite game of being, where there is no crowning of winners and losers.

Confidence is radiating, what's stopping you from finding your confidence? It's in you, but you've just lost it, clouded by all those ideas of how things should be.

Innocent can be confidently owned.

Being laughed at for mistakes or whatever can be confidently owned.

It only becomes awkward when we make it awkward in our thoughts.

It's only not good enough when we don't accept ourselves and embrace our authentic selves.

Stop playing games.

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

The reason it annoys me is because I just secretly feel I should have been better off:
I am learning about this (watching videos and Leo's videos)
I practice meditation (to ease my mind and connect more with my emotional side)
I do exercise
I am passionate about developing myself
And without bragging, I'm quite attractive and muscular (I've been tolled that as well).

This means nothing.

There can be a false sense of development by consuming information related to development, but development doesn't happen by hoarding information.

Getting too deep into the information hoarding results in building conceptual ideas of what development, or spirituality is, until such a point that it feels like second nature, and creates a false sense of feeling developed, yet without embodiment into deeper understanding and wisdom.

13 minutes ago, Snuitje said:

You mentioned about emotions and how people can open up so easily and you can't. Well, why is that? Is it shame or guilt, perhaps fear? Find out and go to the root of it.

These are the kind of things that development entails.

Wanting to be alpha is just chasing some ideas of feeling successful, or being seen as successful. Real success is detaching form such limiting ideas of the ego.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Eph75

[Bando]

@fopylo This is good you need more experiences like this, this is what builds your social calibration, try to set up another group meeting and do it again. You must be comfortable in these types of situations if you want a good social life it's not going to magically happen.

Also meditation and watching Leo's videos has nothing to do with building emotional strength that only comes after putting yourself in an uncomfortable situation repeatedly until you overcome it. Its easy to sit on a comfy chair and do nothing for 20 minutes, but how does that translate to the real world?

It seems you lack social experiences and the people you hang around have much more than you do so fix it. Action Action Action, stop the mental masturbation you already know enough.

[fopylo]

By the way after I finished writing this thread I did the Do Nothing meditation and it was probably the best Do Nothing meditation I've ever done. This intense feeling of anger and frustration made it easier to bring it up to the surface and let it be. I was really letting myself loose on that and my day became better and deeper

[fopylo]

@Snuitje

4 hours ago, Snuitje said:

What you said is something really beautiful. What answer did you expect she/they would give you? Let me suck your dick. No.

Honestly I don't know. I don't even know why I said it, kind of regretted it and I felt very uncomfortable through the rest of the game. I was literally looking up and closing my eyes (I was already very tired so it seemed less awkward).

3 hours ago, Bando said:

This is good you need more experiences like this, this is what builds your social calibration, try to set up another group meeting and do it again. You must be comfortable in these types of situations if you want a good social life it's not going to magically happen.

Yeah this will probably happen sometime soon.

@Bando

3 hours ago, Bando said:

Its easy to sit on a comfy chair and do nothing for 20 minutes, but how does that translate to the real world?

After the meditation session I feel good, but in the real world it doesn't seem to really give me exactly the results I want. But isn't that the purpose of meditation, to surface your subconscious shit into consciousness so that you purify your mind to live with more ease and equanimity?

3 hours ago, Bando said:

It seems you lack social experiences and the people you hang around have much more than you do so fix it.

 Yeah, thinking about it now you're very right. All of them go out and meet friends way more than I, plus, I'm kinda new to this group. And they are quite weird people

[fopylo]

@Eph75

4 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Maybe you are "innocent", is that bad?

Maybe they said "how cute", is that bad? 

Maybe you aren't Alpha, is that bad?

Well, yes. Certainly it feels bad. I've been called those things also in the past and it is quite hurting me, my image of myself. I want to be a wise man, strong man, respected, getting attention (especially from women), talented, emotionally intelligent, artist, maybe more. I am being honest, not trying to sound 'transcendentally enlightened' or some shit. This path has disconnected me from what is true.
It is bad because I don't want to be seen as "innocent" (but rather as someone wise who understands).
Don't want to be tolled "how cute" (it hurts my manhood I strive to be. I'm trying to work on my manhood and such comments make me feel beta).
Not trying to be alpha in the very common neurotic way people think about, but more emotional, aware, wise, maybe there is some ego, neurosis.

4 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Why even bother wanting to be labeled Alpha, and disappoint yourself with labels like Beta when things don't go as you desire?

The only thing that matters is to be authentic and not to be ashamed or guilty for being who we are, and owning that. If you are doing things that goes against your values and morale, then you're not authentic, and you need to return to authenticity.

Well yeah I guess being authentic is quite an amazing thing so that I can be free to be who I am. But in the process of being authentic sometimes I'd rather not be authentic for potential hurt that I might get from the surrounding. I can't suddenly own my authenticity on the spot. On the spot I'd care more to survive because it's too immediate.
And yeah, I fear making blunders that will make me look like a fucking boy. I'm already quite known for being called a "stoner" (it sounds worse in English, but they called me that in a friendly matter, as I make people laugh with my funny behaviors sometimes. I don't smoke) and I've seen how over the years this image is binding me from changing into a better man, even to become more authentic.

4 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Being laughed at for mistakes or whatever can be confidently owned.

Yeah so that's kinda what I was talking about for people laughing at me. I laugh with them and sometimes I don't know if I'm doing it genuinely or to neurotically defend myself, probably a mix of both.

4 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Getting too deep into the information hoarding results in building conceptual ideas of what development, or spirituality is, until such a point that it feels like second nature, and creates a false sense of feeling developed, yet without embodiment into deeper understanding and wisdom.

I should have mentioned this is probably the least concern, as I have been slapped by life a few times that this knowledge won't help. Hence I try to focus on action such as meditation and exercise. Lately I try to not consume a lot of information so that I won't get addicted to it.

4 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Wanting to be alpha is just chasing some ideas of feeling successful, or being seen as successful. Real success is detaching form such limiting ideas of the ego.

In all honestly, I really want and like the idea of being secretly seen as successful among the people I meet. Funnily though, I also fear being seen as successful because I don't want to feel out of the group or ostracized or something.

But shouldn't you try to become successful and creating a self image of yourself? 

[Eph75]

Self image is a construct. Deconstruct instead. With deconstruction and disidentification you free yourself from limitations you've adopted/created for yourself, such as wanting to be alpha or any of those attributes you listen. 

The need to be "successful" is creating your suffering through the discrepancy between what you want and what you get. 

When freed from the need to be "successful" as you define it today, authentic natural success emerges.

Paradoxically, by being free, this might result in what you tried to achieve before but failed at. With acting out of non-attachment and freedom of being, it typically results in becoming successful in similar terms without trying, effortlessly.

Notice how the most successful people seemingly achieve effortlessly, naturally, as if it was second nature. Some have competencies such as social competencies unconscious to themselves and connecting with people and drawing people towards them happens without trying. 

Alpha really is natural and authentic leadership. Not trying to adopt attributes and thinking that results in an "alpha package". You would still feel fake underneath that alpha construct as it's not authentic and needs to be maintained. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Eph75

[NoSelfSelf]

You have upbringing that made you that way and now you have big expectation and no patiance and care for yourself to give yourself a time and baby steps towards the goals...it sounds like you did hard work but that is all on low level if you havent embody what you watched and sounds like you didnt...

[fopylo]

49 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

Self image is a construct. Deconstruct instead. With deconstruction and disidentification you free yourself from limitations you've adopted/created for yourself, such as wanting to be alpha or any of those attributes you listen. 

@Eph75
I've actually made not long ago a thread on that:

 

52 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

The need to be "successful" is creating your suffering through the discrepancy between what you want and what you get. 

When freed from the need to be "successful" as you define it today, authentic natural success emerges.

Yes but I honestly crave this attention of looking good and being respected. Being freed from this need is like erasing this desire, suppressing it, and trying to be someone that I'm not (it's true that I am deficiently driven to get the attention). The actual experience once I get it might feel different but the desire itself is something that still feels good in the moment.

58 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

Alpha really is natural and authentic leadership. Not trying to adopt attributes and thinking that results in an "alpha package". You would still feel fake underneath that alpha construct as it's not authentic and needs to be maintained.

If being natural means following peoples' leads and not being charismatic then I won't really achieve things, because who will want that?
Being authentically beta won't help me get girls or even guy friends.

[fopylo]

@NoSelfSelf

Dude what do you mean I haven't embodied? I do my meditation routines

[Eph75]

40 minutes ago, fopylo said:

Yes but I honestly crave this attention of looking good and being respected. Being freed from this need is like erasing this desire, suppressing it, and trying to be someone that I'm not (it's true that I am deficiently driven to get the attention). 

Feel the dogma.

That dogma, your rigid belief that it must be like you imagine it, and unquestionably so, that is what is keeping you stuck.

That is your ego protecting itself from you disidentifying with it, it making sure it will prevail with all of its limitations it has as a firm hold over your authentic self. 

IF you were to get past those defences of the ego, and detach from you toxic deficiency needs, there is no way that you would miss not being free, that you would miss the suffering. 

That fear and doubt is ego. 

This IS why it is so hard to break free. It is in a sense an addiction to a rigid world view.

It's deeper than conceptually accepting that this is so.

Embodiment is the experiencing of the conceptualization. Repeating words and contemplating concepts do no make those those concepts real. On the contrary, you can easily get stuck with concepts, thinking that we experience them, as new dogma.

Experiencing this break is an awakening. 

That IS the path.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Eph75

[NoSelfSelf]

@fopylo Doing meditation is nothing for now, did you get more to the present moment and get what meditation offers?

I could be singing and never get resaults because i havent embodied what it takes to be good at singing

You havent got skills to be good at socializing and want to see resaults its pointless if you think about it....

[Eph75]

Meditation gives you space, reduces noise and inner chatter, takes the level of distraction down and allows for more focused practice.

Introspection, possibly through specific mediation practice, brings clarity and deeper understanding of self. 

Practice, such as doing where doing is needed, or stopping where stopping is needed, which also is doing, gives us distance to that which got us stuck, or limited. 

The result is that we allow ourselves becoming increasing detached from needs, and the bringing of such freedom to do, and to be, to flex and to flow with whatever is.

That's where effortless success is found. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Eph75

[flowboy]

@fopylo  Meditation should help you be aware of what's happening inside you.

Then all you need is the courage to express that.

And love it.

 

That's what socializing naturally is. Expressing what naturally arises inside of you (scary or not) and loving it, and trusting that whatever outcome will be fine. That's what the others are doing.

Simple, but not easy.

Edited July 22, 2021 by flowboy

[SamC]

Ask yourself:  Why do I meditate?

You will probably find that the reason you do it is because you want to be confident. But again - realize what ever the answer is for yourself.

When you have reached this awareness, notice the fear - the fear that the solution to your problem ( meditation is the solution) might be the problem.. then meditate anyway eventhough you're scared that it will reinforce your anxiety.

See

It's like this thought modell

I hate myself/ am not enough------ I should meditate to fix that ------- oh no it doesn't work ----- oh no, I am meditating to fix myself which reinforces my anxiety ------ oh no I should stop meditating ------ oh no then I will not be enough.

The " solution " is not to do anything about this. It's about to see this while going for what you want. Do you want to meditate to fix yourself? Do it, but do it consciously and notice that your anger of not being where you want to be comes from the fact that you're scared of having low self esteem.

See - the meditation bring you closer to the realization that you're insecure and hate that. If I where you I would investigate that and not run away from it.

 

[fopylo]

@Eph75 @flowboy

Both of what you said are quite similar. The meditation practices indeed help me become more clear about myself and understand myself on deeper levels (my likes, things that make me truly happy, things I really find attractive and the such).

Being detached from needs I understand means I have the freedom to choose what I want to pursue without those limitations of the mind. But yet I don't seem to be able to naturally express myself when talking to people I know.

[flowboy]

4 minutes ago, fopylo said:

But yet I don't seem to be able to naturally express myself when talking to people I know.

Practice, practice, practice!

That's how I did it.

Being in a self-accepting state helps.

But I just did it without self-acceptance, for years. Just having the courage to break through resistance and say what's really on my mind.

Having it be accepted by people. Getting all sorts of feedback.

Making your membrane permeable instead of keeping it closed.

Right now you are choosing to be alone with your thoughts, and it's turning them into a sour soup.

They need air.

Edited July 23, 2021 by flowboy

[fopylo]

@SamC

Interesting. Meditation helps me become aware of the fact that the meditation might be a way to escape, a neurotic behavior.

Yeah, I have one month left before I start my camp of 6 months (coming back once every 2 weeks) and I'm starting to get quit anxious. I've decided a month ago that I'll put effort into my meditation practices so that I'll be well off there. But truthfully, I wouldn't be functioning properly without a mere level of mindfulness (just so that I can be aware of things existing for god sake). My plan was to be the most free I can before I start the camp, as well as to go to as many social gatherings before the start of the camp. I've been on summer break for a month and I have 1 month left. I'm still on nofap for a similar reason, and also started getting back into running.

[SamC]

32 minutes ago, fopylo said:

@SamC

Interesting. Meditation helps me become aware of the fact that the meditation might be a way to escape, a neurotic behavior.

@fopylo Exactly + that if you stop meditating because of that reason you're also trying to escape from " yourself"/ a neurotic behavior.

32 minutes ago, fopylo said:

Yeah, I have one month left before I start my camp of 6 months (coming back once every 2 weeks) and I'm starting to get quit anxious. I've decided a month ago that I'll put effort into my meditation practices so that I'll be well off there. But truthfully, I wouldn't be functioning properly without a mere level of mindfulness (just so that I can be aware of things existing for god sake). My plan was to be the most free I can before I start the camp, as well as to go to as many social gatherings before the start of the camp. I've been on summer break for a month and I have 1 month left. I'm still on nofap for a similar reason, and also started getting back into running.

Yeah thats cool. Continue doing that but notice the fear.

Also be open to the possibility to stop meditating for a while or skippig a day or too. What happend to me is that I meditated for more than 1 and a half years... then I became aware that I did it to escape myself and stopped and than I realized that I stopped for the same reason.

In other words.. become aware of why you do what you do + maybe experiment with letting all your " musts" go for a while.

Life is not about that you have to do X or Y. Its about doing what's best for you.