What SD stage was the romanticist movement at?

[Compatibility]

What spiral dynamics stage do you think the romanticist movement from late 18th to mid 19th century was at? Was it green or high orange? Or regression from orange?

[Carl-Richard]

When looking at particular events in history, it's never that simple. It's generally only possible to see a linear SD progression when you summarize all of history, but there are no clear-cut points and it's all a muddy gradient. Also, no single movement is homogeneous in its expression of SD.

In some ways it took the individualism of Orange and enhanced it in the self-expression domain (aesthetics), but it did so in the reaction to Orange reductionism and demystification of nature. You also have to realize that there were strong nationalistic variants to that movement (originating in Germany which eventually borned Nazism and the WW1&2). The World wars worked essentially as a purge of these anti-Orange ideals. Green didn't truly become a prominent feature of any widespread movement before the 60s imo.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[ArchangelG]

Green

[roopepa]

Reading the wikipedia article on it, I would say it's kind of Orange integrating and also transcending certain aspects of Blue.

Orange is not just cold-blooded rational thinking. There are emotions going on in there. The freedom, the beauty of individuality. Being the hero of your own life.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, ArchangelG said:

Green

Atleast explain why lol

[Windappreciator]

Probably green in that felt surpressed by blue at that time.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Windappreciator said:

Probably green in that felt surpressed by blue at that time.

But why? ?

[Windappreciator]

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

But why? ?

Just a feeling.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Windappreciator said:

Just a feeling.

SD is an intellectual pursuit. I have nothing against intuition, but you generally approach these things with deliberate thought, especially when somebody is asking for clarification.

[Windappreciator]

30 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

SD is an intellectual pursuit. I have nothing against intuition, but you generally approach these things with deliberate thought, especially when somebody is asking for clarification.

That is your clarification. It's a feeling associated with these pictures compared to that of what I associate with that time period.

When I see people's characteristics/behaviour/values/expressions/forms I assign feelings towards it.

 

Same for events/situations/forces and so on..

Edited May 21, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Woke456]

Naturally, stage Green likes to take credit for things they like while passing blame to everyone else for stuff they screw up.  Think about how clear it is that the Communist Manifesto was the birth of Stage Green. Yet right now, we've got Leo mistakenly blaming everyone else for the multiple holocausts that resulted from a flawed, utopiast ideology.

That would be like Stage Orange designing and financing the first factory then blaming the proletariat workers for the pollution.

As you can see, I don't accredit Romanticism to Stage Green.  It really seems like an invention that led to the rise of the Bourgoisie which is mostly Stage Blue and Stago Orange.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Woke456

[AtheisticNonduality]

Blue/Green because it rejected science and materialism and preferred the awe, terror, and beauty of nature. It was less focused on humanity like orange and more so on nature. Its focus on humans was just emphasis on the emotions nature can give and the smallness of humans in comparison to nature.

[Woke456]

40 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Blue/Green because it rejected science and materialism and preferred the awe, terror, and beauty of nature. It was less focused on humanity like orange and more so on nature. Its focus on humans was just emphasis on the emotions nature can give and the smallness of humans in comparison to nature.

Good point about nature.  In humanity, 'the riot' would be the pre-civilization natural state, and you can see it from time up to the present.  For example, in this 1830 revolution depiction, a matriach who represents the Devouring Mother and nature is overwhelming the nobility.  Interestingly, that French flag represents the heroic masculine who must've already aquired the Devouring Mother's power in the first revolution.  However, here we see nature's violent unconscious gripping idealism by the balls for the time being.  Although, the heroic idealism does take back control later on.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Woke456

[Regan]

@Woke456 Romanticism was a rejection of orange

Romanticism is green, mixed with blue depending on whether the romantic was religious or not

Edited May 21, 2021 by Regan

[Woke456]

25 minutes ago, Regan said:

@Woke456 Romanticism was a rejection of orange

Romanticism is green, mixed with blue depending on whether the romantic was religious or not

Not really.  Working in a factory designed by someone in stage orange isn't an orange life condition.

[Windappreciator]

41 minutes ago, Woke456 said:

Not really.  Working in a factory designed by someone in stage orange isn't an orange life condition.

Enjoy nature isn't either

[Regan]

@Woke456 you're looking at it wrong, it's about the way they perceived their own existence in the universe

if you study romantic poets, they literally moved away from mainstream culture to experience the profundity of nature. this is what 'the sublime' is all about

it's that feeling of being just a spec among the immeasurable beast that is existence, for lack of better words

Edited May 21, 2021 by Regan

[Woke456]

16 minutes ago, Regan said:

@Woke456 you're looking at it wrong, it's about the way they perceived their own existence in the universe

if you study romantic poets, they literally moved away from mainstream culture to experience the profundity of nature. this is what 'the sublime' is all about

it's that feeling of being just a spec among the immeasurable beast that is existence, for lack of better words

That sounds like someone describing factory conditions and not liking it. 

Also, it's a resistance to diligence as we see with 2 of its founding fathers committing suicide over being forced into law school.  

Edited May 21, 2021 by Woke456

[Windappreciator]

12 minutes ago, Woke456 said:

That sounds like someone describing factory conditions and not liking it. 

Also, it's a resistance to diligence as we see with 2 of its founding fathers committing suicide over being forced into law school.  

And what stage do you follow from that.

Those could either be orange or green or blue ( blue maybe not so much ).

So we have too look for a finer distinction and not point to the common ones and say 'that could be any, we don't know'.

You come off more as if you're trying to defend an original idea you had which would be broken if you were to believe this is a green stage thing.

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Regan]

@Woke456 you're not talking about romanticism, you're talking about the industrial revolution. romanticism was a move away from the industrial revolution because it held different values.