Thought Art

Leo's New Video: "It's just you imaging me"

49 posts in this topic

16 hours ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

Yeah it’s funny how you can feel like you have the perfect most clearest way of explaining something that anyone should understand if they read it or hear you explain it, but it just never connects the way you hope. :P  Such is the nature of these matters I suppose.  It’s just such an implicit/experiential thing. 

Hard to express this stuff with language.


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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12 hours ago, Dodo said:

@Inliytened1 with trillions of different experiences (that we know of, when we include animals and insects, and when we include animals who are now extinct or are yet to evolve), can we really say the words Experience is king when we know King is The One, not the many?

If there is only One experience I could agree. 

Might be more right to say Being is King. 

There is only one experience as far as what can ever be verified completely. Everything else is projection which just seems reasonable and may or may not be accurate. 
 

Leo is pointing to there only being one experience as far as what I can tell. 


You mistake my Raja Yoga. 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, BipolarGrowth said:

There is only one experience as far as what can ever be verified completely. Everything else is projection which just seems reasonable and may or may not be accurate. 
 

Leo is pointing to there only being one experience as far as what I can tell. 

That's the solipsistic madness. Yes its true you cannot verify others have direct experience like you, but you can notice it in others. 

I can easily test any robot by asking questions and know if they have direct experience or are just programmed to respond. 

If you don't see others have a direct experience also, whats stopping you from killing them? That bunny over there, it doesn't have an experience, why not torture it for the lols?

No man you can easily see others have direct experience also. For me I cannot verfiy that you have a direct experience through my direct experience, but you see that I am wrong if I say "you don't have a direct experience, only me" - right? 

May I ask you, how can I write these words and know they are accurate if I didn't know what direct experience is like by experiencing it?

You don't have a direct experience over globular Earth, but mosy likely you believe it is globular as they say, right? 

Ps: your experience is what is relevant to you, so by all means don't think about other's experiences, but you can't deny they exist, even without first hand evidence. You have to really overthink and be radical to say your experience is the only reality. It is the only reality FOR YOU, but everyone else has a different one lol. 

All of our different experiences are connected by thw same field of Now, thats the One Reality without a second - not your point of view only.

Edited by Dodo

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Posted (edited)

23 minutes ago, Dodo said:

That's the madness. Yes its true you cannot verify others have direct experience like you, but you can notice it in others. 

I can easily test any robot by asking questions and know if they have direct experience or are just programmed to respond. 

If you don't see others have a direct experience also, whats stopping you from killing them? That bunny over there, it doesn't have an experience, why not torture it for the lols?

No man you can easily see others have direct experience also. For me I cannot verfiy that you have a direct experience through my direct experience, but you see that I am wrong if I say "you don't have a direct experience, only me" - right? 

May I ask you, how can I write these words and know they are accurate if I didn't know what direct experience is? 

You don't have a direct experience over globular Earth, but mosy likely you believe it is globular as they say, right? 

 

If you woke up from a dream where I wrote your exact response back to you on this same forum, would this be proof that my dream avatar had a conscious experience? 
 

Do you think that ALL dream characters you experience at night who can use language and handle complex ideas have their own experience? 

 

I’m not saying this because I’m certain there’s no difference between a dream character and a waking reality human. I’m saying this simply to show that you’ve likely experienced a being capable of the things you claim are reliable markers of a being possessing awareness which you still regarded as not being aware. 
 

I certainly believe that other beings are conscious as I go about my daily life. My main point is that it is literally impossible to verify another awareness. As soon as it’s verified, it’s your awareness. As soon as it’s not in present direct experience, you can’t be certain it’s still going on behind the scenes. 

Edited by BipolarGrowth

You mistake my Raja Yoga. 

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Posted (edited)

13 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

If you woke up from a dream where I wrote your exact response back to you on this same forum, would this be proof that my dream avatar had a conscious experience? 
 

Do you think that ALL dream characters you experience at night who can use language and handle complex ideas have their own experience? 

 

I’m not saying this because I’m certain there’s no difference between a dream character and a waking reality human. I’m saying this simply to show that you’ve likely experienced a being capable of the things you claim are reliable markers of a being possessing awareness which you still regarded as not being aware. 

But I cannot have such a dream. I know you say "imagine" but In dreams,  unless its a "dream" in the spiritual plane, characters trully do not have a direct experience and hence cannot give me such deep account of what direct experience is like. If they did have a direct experience too, I would've already met another "dreamer" in my dreams and lucid dream together and then meet in real life.... Or if not a dreamer, I would've known they have direct experience by the way they act. They do not. 

Thats also why in dreams I can with clear conscience kill someone and I've done it - and I know I did not cause harm. Or sleep with someone in public, or get naked without being ashamed..

The dream analogy is just a diversion, a way for your false belief to keep its power. 

Edited by Dodo

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Posted (edited)

49 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

If you woke up from a dream where I wrote your exact response back to you on this same forum, would this be proof that my dream avatar had a conscious experience? 
 

Do you think that ALL dream characters you experience at night who can use language and handle complex ideas have their own experience? 

 

I’m not saying this because I’m certain there’s no difference between a dream character and a waking reality human. I’m saying this simply to show that you’ve likely experienced a being capable of the things you claim are reliable markers of a being possessing awareness which you still regarded as not being aware. 

Hang on just another second.. So you assumed I dream just like you.. Why did you do that? You can only do that if you assume I also have experience of the 3 states waking dream and sleep such as yourself? I thought only you have an experience! 

Do you think im just pretending and saying things when in reality only your experience now is real? Cmon bruh! It's nice that I can be tricked in a dream state, but even having the dream proves I have direct experience, so your example falls flat on its face! 

Edited by Dodo

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I had a massive lsd awakening months ago, maybe last year now I can’t remember exactly when. But I became aware of many of the things Leo spoke about. That I was here and always been here in the same spot same moment. I was aware of how I created this like web of imagination from one thought/memory to another. Kind of like the idea of me being here right now would create one strand which would sort of begin to spiral around me, kind of like that swing ball game. You could say that I was like the stick, like that was my empty consciousness. And the ball on the string was one idea spinning around me. Then I’d add another idea of how that ball was there, and one on top of that and so on.

Suddenly there’s strings and balls flying round the stick to the point you can’t make out how many there are, thousands, millions, just spiralling around wrapping themselves around the stick so tightly I was locked in the middle of them just so tightly knit that it was my life, made up of these ideas and stories I’d concocted, built up on top of one another, creating this solidarity of this consistent ongoing from moment to moment life. But what I realised was that the idea of my birth wasn’t even like the first idea, that came as an idea built upon other ideas, you could say other balls on strings, to ground me in a reason of what the hell I was doing here. Anchoring me, which was a phrase leo used that I quite liked. So these ideas were not even in order as we would conventionally put it. They created an order from my human life perspective, but they weren’t really in order as such. It was an amazing revelation to me about how I am constructing this thing. And the awakening was the unraveling of that. Like unraveling the strings and balls away from the stick until I was just left as the stick. 
Now I wasn’t a stick and tennis balls? but it’s all I can seem to compare it to as the feeling of these thoughts and ideas spiralling around me creating me and my life. I’d found it difficult to interpret but after watching the video I was like I know this, I know what Leo is on about here I’ve experienced this to a degree. 
And on the subject of other people other bubbles, I’m pretty certain there isn’t any. That others conform to how you are, your true deep down concept of self. They are reactive to you because they are aspects of your own mind. And they seem surprising, and intelligent, with they’re own thoughts and opinions, purely because you don’t know your own mind deeply enough to understand why they conform to you the way they do. I’m guilty of this. But it’s workable I’m sure of that. The only time Leo’s bubble exists, is when your concept of self is that of Leo. Making you/us/him one in the same. The exact same thing, consciousness with a different concept of itself. Which makes you him, him you, him me, me him, as he likes to put it, I am you, and you are me. And considering it’s all happening outside of time and space at the absolute level, it’s simultaneous. So you really are just talking to yourself. Amazing, could not be put together any better. And I know, as the saying goes, I’m still only scratching the surface.

 

 

964DC6B6-BE39-4C75-B273-79A4B1FA6F25.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

55 minutes ago, Dazgwny said:

I had a massive lsd awakening months ago, maybe last year now I can’t remember exactly when. But I became aware of many of the things Leo spoke about. That I was here and always been here in the same spot same moment. I was aware of how I created this like web of imagination from one thought/memory to another. Kind of like the idea of me being here right now would create one strand which would sort of begin to spiral around me, kind of like that swing ball game. You could say that I was like the stick, like that was my empty consciousness. And the ball on the string was one idea spinning around me. Then I’d add another idea of how that ball was there, and one on top of that and so on.

Suddenly there’s strings and balls flying round the stick to the point you can’t make out how many there are, thousands, millions, just spiralling around wrapping themselves around the stick so tightly I was locked in the middle of them just so tightly knit that it was my life, made up of these ideas and stories I’d concocted, built up on top of one another, creating this solidarity of this consistent ongoing from moment to moment life. But what I realised was that the idea of my birth wasn’t even like the first idea, that came as an idea built upon other ideas, you could say other balls on strings, to ground me in a reason of what the hell I was doing here. Anchoring me, which was a phrase leo used that I quite liked. So these ideas were not even in order as we would conventionally put it. They created an order from my human life perspective, but they weren’t really in order as such. It was an amazing revelation to me about how I am constructing this thing. And the awakening was the unraveling of that. Like unraveling the strings and balls away from the stick until I was just left as the stick. 
Now I wasn’t a stick and tennis balls? but it’s all I can seem to compare it to as the feeling of these thoughts and ideas spiralling around me creating me and my life. I’d found it difficult to interpret but after watching the video I was like I know this, I know what Leo is on about here I’ve experienced this to a degree. 
And on the subject of other people other bubbles, I’m pretty certain there isn’t any. That others conform to how you are, your true deep down concept of self. They are reactive to you because they are aspects of your own mind. And they seem surprising, and intelligent, with they’re own thoughts and opinions, purely because you don’t know your own mind deeply enough to understand why they conform to you the way they do. I’m guilty of this. But it’s workable I’m sure of that. The only time Leo’s bubble exists, is when your concept of self is that of Leo. Making you/us/him one in the same. The exact same thing, consciousness with a different concept of itself. Which makes you him, him you, him me, me him, as he likes to put it, I am you, and you are me. And considering it’s all happening outside of time and space at the absolute level, it’s simultaneous. So you really are just talking to yourself. Amazing, could not be put together any better. And I know, as the saying goes, I’m still only scratching the surface.

 

 

964DC6B6-BE39-4C75-B273-79A4B1FA6F25.jpeg

That tetherball analysis is fun. I am sure you experienced something profound and it made a lot of sense to you, but you have no way of knowing what is outside of your direct experience... So claiming there aren't any other bubbles is the same degree of mistake as saying there are other bubbles. We can say "We do not know if there are other bubbles, but we can assume from experience there are"

I know that you, right now, are looking at a screen to read this comment, yes? I am looking at a screen to type this comment. I am using hands to type up this comment - you are using your eyes to read it. That is an interaction between 2 distinct entities - with different experiences and different ideas and different insights. These are two completely different experiences, yes? You have access to one of the two yes? 

My experience of typing this comment is never going to register for you, for you, this experience doesn't exist, but for me it does. And vice versa, I don't haveaccess to the experience of you reading it, but I know/assume such an experience exists. Only you can verify that for me, but I would have to trust /believe your word, which I would.

 We might be the same non-entity, the same emptiness at the root of consciousness, but when you say "I", it is not the emptiness that says it, it is you, through your bodymind organism that says it. And that one is different to this one, even though connected by the only real space of Now. Our ultimate/absolute identity is the Now, so as that we can say there is only One, but, on the relative level there are more than a trillion different bubbles of experience within that Now... 

 

Edited by Dodo

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@Dazgwny On LSD I had a similar sensation but I envisioned honeycombs for some reason. It didn't make sense of why, but I was picturing the structure growing out with more honeycombs.

One of the things I recall from that trip was that I was very interested in memories then. I remembered a scenario from high school, and it interested me greatly that this memory was MY memory. The room and characters like movie props I am using to reconstruct this particular event.

And then I considered that the other characters in that moment likely have their OWN memories of that moment where I am one of those set pieces.

Then I considered how every single interaction with a person will permanently add to the honeycomb. Saying hello to a person 10 years ago, now you have created a point in their life where your structures collided and that will ALWAYS be there in time somewhere.

It's not insightful or nondual but I found that very fascinating.

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