are two hydrogen atoms actually infinitely different?

[Holygrail]

I can see how two hydrogen atoms are at least different in coordinates, but aren't they also different in that every part that constitutes that hydrogen atom is in infinitely different locations within the hydrogen atom making both the hydrogen atoms infinitely different? In one way, they're arranged identically at the atomic level, but they're probably arranged in infinitely different ways at the subatomic level and so on.. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Holygrail

[Tim R]

"different" is an idea. 

"same" is an idea.

[levani]

they are different, but at the same time the same.

[Forestluv]

Of course. For example, an atom contains electrons in superposition energetic fields of probability. No two are the same.

Drawing with protons and electrons are models. There is not literally dots of protons and electrons.

[Holygrail]

7 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Of course. For example, an atom contains electrons in superposition energetic fields of probability. No two are the same.

Drawing with protons and electrons are models. There is not literally dots of protons and electrons.

Oh yeah thats true, kinda spooky how these electrons technically dont even exist but probability fields...

[lmfao]

@Holygrail Im not sure but, I think the current theory goes that all protons and electrons are "identical"[hydrogen=proton +electron]. But, not all protons and electrons will be in the same state. You can prep these things in different states. 

There's also quantum mechanics which hides this all. In science, you only talk about things as far as you can measure and observe. We can observe that certain probability distributions and uncertainties in a characteristic exist (e.g. Uncertainty in position or velocity, heisenberg principle). 

There is the "quantum state" of a system, which gives this probability distribution information. Two objects can have the same quantum state, but they are only the same in the language and definitions we are using. So it's circular logic in that respect, how we describe two things as different or identical. 

We don't know if they are actually the same. Maybe scientists can't speculate what lies beyond the "quantum state", since the whole theory itself is the formalisation of the limits of empirical observation. 

[ It being "limited" in contrast to ideals people had involving determinism and absolute knowledge] 

Edited April 14, 2021 by lmfao

[Breakingthewall]

infinitely different. if you divide the bosons and muons until you get to ... nothing? there is a universe of differences in there

[lmfao]

12 minutes ago, lmfao said:

@Holygrail Im not sure but, I think the current theory goes that all protons and electrons are "identical"[hydrogen=proton +electron]

Oh yeah. And need it be said that it would only be described as identical, in some framework, with what is known or has been observed so far. We'll never know if there are more materialistic layers to the universe we can't see or see the effects of. 

"You don't know what you don't know, you know?". lmao

Edited April 14, 2021 by lmfao

[Inliytened1]

40 minutes ago, Holygrail said:

Oh yeah thats true, kinda spooky how these electrons technically dont even exist but probability fields...

And what is a probability field?

 

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

infinitely different. if you divide the bosons and muons until you get to ... nothing? there is a universe of differences in there

You'll just continue to zoom in forever.