Is Enlightenment A Lie?

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, Anlib said:

@Leo Gura do you mean that the lower level of conciousness you have when u take this drug, the more pain u will recieve? I mean u say to you audience that they should concider taking this drug, but I don't think that many people are more developed that Tai. I mean, I think most of you audience are lower consiousness than average. What type of person are searching on yt to get their problems solved by a video? Dont get me wrong, most of your videos are fucking awsome:) but i often feel like you often say thing's in you videos to make me/us feel like we have more consionusness than most of us have. This is aviously for marketing reasons so people subscribe to your channel, but if you're saying that thai would have a nervuos breakdown because of his "deluded belives" who would'nt? Would I have a nervous breakdown because I suddenly realize that im not a human?

You assume Tai is highly developed. But he is obviously not. Don't confused success with development.

Yes, like I said, the more inner demons you have, the more shit you repress, the more ego you have, the more of that you'll have to deal with if you ever open Pandora's box.

What undeveloped people don't realize is how much truth they've been repressing and denying their whole lives. It's so much, it will make you physically throw up if you ever discover it in one instance. Literally it will make you physically ill, all your lies. But you don't even know what I'm referring to yet. The lies are so deep. Maybe one day you will.

If there's anything I know for sure, it's that my stance on radical openmindedness is not nearly radical enough.

Everything the average human being knows about reality is so wrong it's heart-breaking and shocking. And there's very little I can do to help because to hear me requires that one already suspect that one is living in a Matrix. You just don't know yet how deep the Matrix is. It's way worse than any movie has hinted at. It's utterly impossible to comprehend to the human mind. Like an ant trying to understand calculus.

[Kevin Dunlop]

11 hours ago, Neo said:

A wouldn't like to estimate the proportion of Leo's audience who shouldn't be taking the drug for whatever reason, underage, vulnerable, not ready, but I fall into the camp that was watching authentic growth in myself that is very challenging only to be disappointed by a seeming cop-out on Leo's part and a strange turn in the course of his videos. Sorry Leo.

Iam already on the other side of this question. I know what its like to improve the identity, to sort out the egos faults and see groth etc. But there is nothing the Ego can offer that is like the peace and beauty of unfiltered reality with no goals pushing you around - just let all that stuff happen on its own let yourself be free of it, then you can be more effective anyway. Life is not an emergency we have to be constantly taking care of its way more fun than that, expectations lead to disappointment

[Kevin Dunlop]

On 28/9/2016 at 11:44 PM, Davie said:

This guy makes some really good points, can you counter his arguments as it's turning me away from this enlightenment path!

Is Enlightenment a lie? Everything you can say with words is, from some perspective, a lie. The word enlightenment and all its meanings can be infinitely argued for or against like every other concept. Your concept of enlightenment may be a lie, it might be true for you but never possible for another. I might say enlightenment and mean something you cant imagine, so what you imagine it to be may be a lie. All I can say is that for me ( Ill never know about you)  my interpretation of the ideas presented on enlightenment, when incorporated into my beliefs, and then experienced produce an extrodinary perception, that everything I have learned so far doesnt compare to.

[Kevin Dunlop]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

. It's utterly impossible to comprehend to the human mind. Like an ant trying to understand calculus.

Thats why I dont like to make negative predictions about other people or label them. I give them the opportunity to grow and be the infinite mystery they are. 

[electroBeam]

@Davie Ty's basic premise is inconsistent with reality. He says that hippies and buddhist look within, that's not true. When you meditate, you aren't looking within, your looking externally. You're empirically investigating what you see, hear and smell. Yes you do investigate inner stuff like thoughts and feelings, but that's only half of what you investigate.

And Ty wants evidence, has Ty noticed that there actually isn't ANY evdience that the physical world exists. Take a ball for example. How do we know that ball exists? Because it's made of atoms you say, now lets take an electron microscope to figure that out. Yes the electron microscope shows signs that atoms exist because the electrons bounced bounced back into the electron microscope, instead of going through. BUT you can ask, how do we know electrons bounce back when it hits objects? What law says that? If you keep tracing back to the very fundamental laws of physics, you will notice that the physical world is built upon a bunch of arbitrary beliefs. These beliefs put into practice are known as the scientific method: when something in our awareness is repeatable, can be seen by others and occurs over the same conditions... but you know what the crazy part is, these laws are completely arbitrary. What evidence is there to prove that something has to be repeatable? Why do others have to see a phenomena the same way for it to exist in this world?

Computers, phones, construction sites, the physical world in general don't exist in the way you think it does. They are all constructs in your mind generated by a firm assumption in the scientific method, and in the physical worldview, and there is no evidence to prove that the monitor or phone you are looking at now exists in the real world.

Even from a physical perspective there is no proof that your phone is real. If all you have seen is through your eyes, then you have never seen the real world before directly, and if you haven't how do you know it exists in the way you think it does.

And also, Ty has to realize that success != trueth. His arguments at the beginning of this video fall into this fallacy, even his own worldview proves him incorrect. 

[electroBeam]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

to hear me requires that one already suspect that one is living in a Matrix. 

I think that's a little too pessimistic. Only 8 months ago I was an active supporter of the new athiest movement, and thought everyone who was religious was an idiot. I was so immersed in the matrix that I couldn't even understand the difference between duality and singularity, until I watched your spirituality video, which almost literally cracked my brain open, and made me see the footsteps of the ox. 

I think a lot of people on here are like that, you dont really need to suspect that you live in the matrix, just need to watch the right videos

[Neo]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If there's anything I know for sure, it's that my stance on radical openmindedness is not nearly radical enough.

Everything the average human being knows about reality is so wrong it's heart-breaking and shocking. And there's very little I can do to help because to hear me requires that one already suspect that one is living in a Matrix. You just don't know yet how deep the Matrix is. It's way worse than any movie has hinted at. It's utterly impossible to comprehend to the human mind. Like an ant trying to understand calculus.

But are you saying your drug of choice isn't the end point then because I know every other man and his dog around here have tried your drug (not I though) and it doesn't seem to have made much difference to them other than another wacked out experience. I've really been nothing but confused wince you bought drugs into this. Are you now saying there a whole lot more other than that?

Bottom line: I'm not sure how this can be authentic.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Neo

[Kevin Dunlop]

7 hours ago, Neo said:

But are you saying your drug of choice isn't the end point then because I know every other man and his dog around here have tried your drug (not I though) and it doesn't seem to have made much difference to them other than another wacked out experience. I've really been nothing but confused wince you bought drugs into this. Are you now saying there a whole lot more other than that?

Bottom line: I'm not sure how this can be authentic.

Dont worry about it too much. We are all doing our part as best as we can. Leo is putting this site together and its really helpful but hes not perfect. He is just finding out how messed up he is too. He is very determined to investigate the human mind and perception through experience. He does not want to leave this ¨stone¨ unturned, ( pun intended). If he did he would always be wondering if he had missed something important. He is still young, you see, and is going through this part of his development. He is being brave and investigating. Nothing is perminant let things change here and be patient

[30secs]

@Davie

everything can be a lie, but Enlightment is not a thing, it is simply the absence of all perspectives, how can we tell it's a lie in the first place?

[30secs]

@John Flores

there is an infinite perspective you can attribute to a thing, but one thing that for sure: that you are simply aware , even you are in a dream.

[ajasatya]

as long as there is experience to be witnessed, it can only be done through some individual avatar because perspective requires duality.

yeah, there's no way out of the matrix besides parinirvana, if that's even practical. the buddha's teaching was that every sentient being from every possibility of Reality should acquire the desire to enter a journey to kill its ego, leading to COMPLETE cessation of experience.

well, honestly i think we better live in the matrix consciously (as much as we can) so we do not draw in delusion anymore, loving "everyone" knowing that's "self" love and loving "oneself" knowing that's loving "everyone". enjoy the ride because it can be fun and healthy

Edited October 1, 2016 by iago iriarte arhatha
just removing an empty line

[Leo Gura]

22 hours ago, electroBeam said:

I think that's a little too pessimistic. Only 8 months ago I was an active supporter of the new athiest movement, and thought everyone who was religious was an idiot. I was so immersed in the matrix that I couldn't even understand the difference between duality and singularity, until I watched your spirituality video, which almost literally cracked my brain open, and made me see the footsteps of the ox. 

I think a lot of people on here are like that, you dont really need to suspect that you live in the matrix, just need to watch the right videos

Good to hear that it's possible to get through to some of you

[Scholar]

5 hours ago, John Flores said:

@30secs everything is everything. Life is eternal. Death non existent. Love innate. Peace infused. There is nothing but light, even amidst the darkness....

there is no dream, but there is the eternal dream. Ideas ideas ideas, it's the language of God as God created a powerful being beneath our fold. We eternally respect it

The thing is though that every single word you have used is a concept. Everything is a concept, being itself is a concept. You cannot understand enlightenment, and if you think you have understood it, it means you haven't. Everything you just said is another story.

If aone truly understands enlighenment, permanently, then he or she will do nothing at ll. If Leo is permanently enlightened, he will sit until he dies. He will not even care about this site anymore, because this site is a concept part of a concept he calls existance. If he truly is enlighened, he will expirience that even existance itself is one more lie his ego tells himself. Infact, the motivation to become enlightened is part of the ego, if you are enlightened, you will not want to be enlightened anymore, because you will want nothing at all. Because in a deeper sense, you do not exist. Enlightenment, in deeper sense, does not exist either.

One cannot be enlightened, because enlightenment is just another concept. If you are enlightened, your ego still exists, otherwise you'd recognize that you infact are not enlightened at all. But the problem here is that if you recognize anything at all, if you have any realizitation at all, you are not enlightened. That's why Leo says it's impossible to communicate, even to himself. Because the expirience of enlightenment he has is just a memory in his mind. And a memory is just another concept. So no matter what he tells you, what he tells himself, it infact is completely irrelevant. Even if I tell myself enlightenment is this process of expirience that is everything that exists, I just described it with concepts. It's like people say "I want to expirience enlightenment.", but they don't realize that enlightenment is no expirience. They do not recognize that it is no concept, so it's simply not describable. I cannot understand it, I can't even think about it. So how does one get there? Well, one is already there, and at the same time, one isn't. Everything we try to tell each other is a story. You see, the fact that you tell yourself that you need to be enlightened, or that you are not enlightened, is just another story.

Leo might say "Enlightenment is the state where your ego is completely gone.", but what exactly is a state? What exactly is being itself? What exactly is existance? We all have concepts for these things, every single one of us. We cannot communicate it differently. You can let go of all the concepts, but letting go is one more concept. Concept itself is a concept.

 

Very confusing, I do not even know if it makes sense. But sense is just another concept. Lies and truths are concepts aswell.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Scholar

[30secs]

On 10/1/2016 at 1:02 PM, John Flores said:

There is nothing but light, even amidst the darkness....

this is very inspiring, there should be existence/awareness/light before a darkness can exist, yeah agree.