No longer want to change others

[tuckerwphotography]

After a very potent psilocybin journey about a month ago, I've been in this phase where I don't really have a desire to change others. Maybe if someone punches me in the face, I'd want them to stop. I'm not talking about that necessarily. More like I no longer feel this burning desire to "save the world" and convince others to think, act or believe the ways I do. It's more like I'm living in a dream and am just witnessing everyone going about life to the best of their abilities. I wouldn't describe it as apathetic, because on a personal level I still want to act with love and the values that I feel personally called to live by, it's just that I'm less stressed about others doing so also. 

It's bizarre to feel this way especially amongst stage Green culture where everyone around me is trying to save the world and freaking out about other people's actions and words. Which all makes sense to me, I just don't resonate with the desire as strongly. 

My fear is that I'm somehow spiritual bypassing the world and stuck in my own little bubble of bliss while others suffer. But I guess my counter argument to this is that I still want to help people, it's just I only want to help those who want to be helped, not trying to force others to change. So in that sense, perhaps this is healthy?

Wondering if others can relate with this, and if there's red flags with anything I've stated above. Thanks!

[tuckerwphotography]

For example, MLK and Gandhi both wanted to change people, on some level at least, right? And as a society we look to them as the greatest example of what it means to be human. So I guess I'm questioning if NOT feeling the desire to fight for widespread radical change means I'm operating in some blind spot or spiritual bypass framework. 

[DIDego]

@tuckerwphotography Yes  i answer you the first post here, give anwers to my own issue, fantastic, hope the answer resonate and give you a hint.

How much fuel do you have to light your burning desire to the mission "Save the world" and how can you do what you do without get exhausted? Turn down the effort a little and find a different approach?

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by DIDego

[Saupahar]

@tuckerwphotography yes,i have started doing the same. It's very frustrating to change others if they don't ask for it. 

 

[aurum]

@tuckerwphotography

No, I think you've rightly identified one of the shadows of Green level consciousness.

Lately, I've been fond of saying that we need a lot less people trying to save the world and a lot more people who are just willing to sit and appreciate a sunset.

All that stress is not productive. It's leftover stage Orange.

I think we need to recognize that this is a revolution like one we've never had. It's a revolution of inner peace, cooperation and harmony.

If we can't find that place internally, despite everything going on, we're not going to manifest a society that reflects it.

Of course, some action is necessary and some things will need to be done. But if you're in anxiety and out of alignment, you're not helping anyone. Your action will mostly be counterproductive.

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, tuckerwphotography said:

After a very potent psilocybin journey about a month ago, I've been in this phase where I don't really have a desire to change others. Maybe if someone punches me in the face, I'd want them to stop. I'm not talking about that necessarily. More like I no longer feel this burning desire to "save the world" and convince others to think, act or believe the ways I do. It's more like I'm living in a dream and am just witnessing everyone going about life to the best of their abilities. I wouldn't describe it as apathetic, because on a personal level I still want to act with love and the values that I feel personally called to live by, it's just that I'm less stressed about others doing so also. 

It's bizarre to feel this way especially amongst stage Green culture where everyone around me is trying to save the world and freaking out about other people's actions and words. Which all makes sense to me, I just don't resonate with the desire as strongly. 

My fear is that I'm somehow spiritual bypassing the world and stuck in my own little bubble of bliss while others suffer. But I guess my counter argument to this is that I still want to help people, it's just I only want to help those who want to be helped, not trying to force others to change. So in that sense, perhaps this is healthy?

Wondering if others can relate with this, and if there's red flags with anything I've stated above. Thanks!

your mushroom dose wasn't potent enough  because you didn't get to the 'insight' that what your higher self truly desires is always more right then what you think you should desire and what society thinks you should desire.

You don't feel a burning desire to save the world, because there is no world. Saving the world is like saving a unicorn, its not actually there.

You can't spiritually bypass the world, because the world isn't actually there. Worried about spiritually bypassing the world is like a schizophrenic worried about taking his medication because if he takes his medication he wont be able to save his little imaginary friend whose always pulling him/her for attention.

But as you go deeper, there will be a desire to express compassion to yourself(yourself being 'the world'). And that compassion wont be wrapped up in ideologies about what you should and shouldn't be doing, or what you're doing it to (the world or whatever) it will be as natural as taking a shit. Just expressing it because there's too much compassion within you and you need to ejaculate it out for your own sanity. 

[tuckerwphotography]

6 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

your mushroom dose wasn't potent enough  because you didn't get to the 'insight' that what your higher self truly desires is always more right then what you think you should desire and what society thinks you should desire.

You don't feel a burning desire to save the world, because there is no world. Saving the world is like saving a unicorn, its not actually there.

You can't spiritually bypass the world, because the world isn't actually there. Worried about spiritually bypassing the world is like a schizophrenic worried about taking his medication because if he takes his medication he wont be able to save his little imaginary friend whose always pulling him/her for attention.

But as you go deeper, there will be a desire to express compassion to yourself(yourself being 'the world'). And that compassion wont be wrapped up in ideologies about what you should and shouldn't be doing, or what you're doing it to (the world or whatever) it will be as natural as taking a shit. Just expressing it because there's too much compassion within you and you need to ejaculate it out for your own sanity. 

@electroBeam Thanks for your comments. I actually did "get" that insight which is why upon reintegrating I started evaporating old patterns of being, hence my original post. But no, despite experiencing The Dream and pure Nothingness, I (meaning the Dream character) did not come back Enlightened, so I'm now reconciling my trip experience with my present experience. 

"You don't feel a burning desire to save the world, because there is no world. Saving the world is like saving a unicorn, its not actually there." 

Yes, ^ this is how I feel (speaking on the relative level here), but when nearly everyone else in society would balk at this, it seems healthy and rational to question my assumptions with those of others, if nothing else for the sake of greater Self-inquiry. 

"But as you go deeper, there will be a desire to express compassion to yourself(yourself being 'the world'). And that compassion wont be wrapped up in ideologies about what you should and shouldn't be doing, or what you're doing it to (the world or whatever) it will be as natural as taking a shit. Just expressing it because there's too much compassion within you and you need to ejaculate it out for your own sanity."

^ This resonates. Thank you. I definitely do feel compassion but also sense there's infinitely more Love to be experienced

[electroBeam]

11 minutes ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@electroBeam but when nearly everyone else in society would balk at this, it seems healthy and rational to question my assumptions with those of others, if nothing else for the sake of greater Self-inquiry. 

just remember you're creating all those people 

In other words, lets pretend you never learnt language. Could those people still bork at you? And whose the one turning sound waves into meaning?

[tuckerwphotography]

@aurum Beautiful, thank you 

[tuckerwphotography]

2 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

just remember you're creating all those people 

In other words, lets pretend you never learnt language. Could those people still bork at you? And whose the one turning sound waves into meaning?

@electroBeam Consciousness masquerading as thoughts masquerading as "me"?

[electroBeam]

4 minutes ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@electroBeam Consciousness masquerading as thoughts masquerading as "me"?

well every thought comes from you  It never comes from someone else. You've never experienced a thought from someone else before. Neither have you experienced communication from someone else before, all of the meaning is generated by you. 

Even this post from 'electroBeam' now. Where's the meaning coming from? Is it really coming from electroBeam, or is it coming from you? Can you ever really communicate with electroBeam, or can you only communicate with yourself? Can you ever understand ideas and communication coming from electroBeam or can you only understand thoughts and ideas coming from yourself?

I wouldn't say consciousness is masquerading as thoughts including 'me' I would say thoughts are coming from you. All of them are coming from you, the confusion lies when you actually believe a thought or idea or communication is not coming from you. 

[Roy]

I had the same sort of breakthrough in consciousness about 2 years ago. I would say it's a sort of "spiritual maturing". No longer as attached to outcomes and being pointlessly stressed about the way things "should" be.

Also a realization that the only way people change, is when they're ready for it. Everyone has their own unique path and has to come to things on their own. No amount of proselytizing, or explaining, or anger, or shaming is going to do anything. It's a far smoother process to be at peace internally and externally when you recognize this.

My desire to help others, love, and improve the world hasn't really gone down or changed from this either, it's actually been bolstered by the fact I am now wise enough to see where it's worth spending that energy and where it's a waste. That's not to say I ignore or deny certain parts of reality, the interactions are just more grounded.

Everything is fine and happening exactly the way it should be, because it is.

Edited November 7, 2020 by Roy

[tuckerwphotography]

13 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

well every thought comes from you  It never comes from someone else. You've never experienced a thought from someone else before. Neither have you experienced communication from someone else before, all of the meaning is generated by you. 

@electroBeam Yes that's what I meant in my previous post. I get the gist from the Absolute perspective (though I'm not claiming to be actively embodying it). My original post was speaking on the relative level about this Dream world in which I find myself dreaming up. Thank you for the reminder that I'm just dancing in the illusion

Edited November 7, 2020 by tuckerwphotography

[tuckerwphotography]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

 

No, I think you've rightly identified one of the shadows of Green level consciousness.

Lately, I've been fond of saying that we need a lot less people trying to save the world and a lot more people who are just willing to sit and appreciate a sunset.

@aurum The argument I hear from my stage Green friends is that just like I would step in and try to stop someone beating up a young child, so too should we step in and defend, say, trees from being cut down to build a new highway or a big game animals from being hunted. Why do I put my life on the line to defend the human child but not the rhino or the 300 year old oak tree? These are interesting arguments for which I don't have a satisfying response. 

[aurum]

35 minutes ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@aurum The argument I hear from my stage Green friends is that just like I would step in and try to stop someone beating up a young child, so too should we step in and defend, say, trees from being cut down to build a new highway or a big game animals from being hunted. Why do I put my life on the line to defend the human child but not the rhino or the 300 year old oak tree? These are interesting arguments for which I don't have a satisfying response. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for saving the trees. And I can imagine situations where putting your life on the line would be the right thing. But if that’s your only strategy, I don’t see that as getting to the root of the problem.

These problems are complex and systemic. You sabotage a bulldozer from killing a tree, but you’ve left the systems and beliefs in place that allowed that to happen. You may have even made the situation worse by enforcing an “us vs them” dynamic between environmentalists and industrialists.

They are right that there is bias we have towards humans over other forms of life. I just think a different approach would be more effective.

Regardless, it’s an interesting point of view. And I appreciate people who are out on the front lines like that.

[tuckerwphotography]

@aurum Well said. And agree, definitely times when it feels as if the universe is calling for us to directly defend life. Ultimately for me it comes down to the paradox of being a sentient being in the world which by default requires us to end life in order to create life. I've worked tirelessly through my stage Green years of minimizing my impact, at times going to radical extremes, but I feel liberated from the days of shaming myself into thinking I'm somehow immoral due to the fact that I'm using resources. It's been interesting to witness myself attempting to find balance in an unbalanced world...certainly an art I have yet to master

[aurum]

12 hours ago, tuckerwphotography said:

I've worked tirelessly through my stage Green years of minimizing my impact, at times going to radical extremes, but I feel liberated from the days of shaming myself into thinking I'm somehow immoral due to the fact that I'm using resources.

Yeah it's a great point.

The excesses of stage Orange are real. Planned obsolescence, landfills as big as cities, hyper consumerism. These are real phenomena that Green is conscious of and is pushing against. I think it's healthy to go through that phase.

However, I also think you're right in saying that just trying to minimize your impact and consume as few resources as possible is ultimately not the solution. It's an overreaction to Orange.

Charles Eisenstein talks a lot about this. We shouldn't seek to have no impact, we should seek a positive impact.

Human beings are as essential to the earth's ecosystem as the bees, the trees, the apex predators, the fungi or anything else. None of these species have no impact or don't consume resources.

We've just got to collectively find that proper role.

That's why I've been so stoked on things like regenerative agriculture. It's not about just reducing the harm of human impact, it's actually about leaving that land better than you found it.

[Willie]

16 hours ago, tuckerwphotography said:

For example, MLK and Gandhi both wanted to change people, on some level at least, right? And as a society we look to them as the greatest example of what it means to be human. So I guess I'm questioning if NOT feeling the desire to fight for widespread radical change means I'm operating in some blind spot or spiritual bypass framework. 

They helped affect change where people wanted it. Helping people who never asked for it and are reluctant or outright opposed is a consent violation, really. Not helpful at all.

[tuckerwphotography]

17 minutes ago, Willie said:

They helped affect change where people wanted it. Helping people who never asked for it and are reluctant or outright opposed is a consent violation, really. Not helpful at all.

@Willie There were millions of people who did not want the change that MLK was fighting for. He was demanding justice from people who did not want to give justice. In that sense, he was clearly trying to change people who did not want to be changed.