Why is eating meat "bad" or less evolved lets say?

[Intraplanetary]

On 18/10/2020 at 0:43 PM, Scholar said:

This is a time of adopting radical responsibility and being able to make the sacrifices that need to be done.

regenerative farming! radical but more realistic. Everyone going vegan is a pipe dream. Let's get real. 

[Intraplanetary]

1 minute ago, Village said:

Finding the primal diet is like winning the lottery. 

Totally. This is like going back to your roots and realigning with nature, hence all the rest can flower and bloom. 

We forgot where we're coming from. 

 

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, toocrazytobecrazy said:

not all of them never tried raw spinach o kale actually, i am not vegan tho i actually enjoy eating vegetables more. i eat meat but i don't like the idea of eating meat itself. because 1st hygiene,2nd freshness, 3 biological memory of the animal. also pain in the animals face  i gotta admit a was little bit emotional tho when i wrote that. on the evolutionary scale we developed bond with most animals, just like humans do, so its harder to eat animal rather than eating vegetables.

then why do you eat meat?

[Intraplanetary]

25 minutes ago, datamonster said:

@Village@Intraplanetary@integral

I'm wondering, as self-actualizers, don't these carnivore youtubers and figureheads ever make you suspicious?

Have you never wondered why they hate vegans so much? Why are they spending so much time and energy talking about how bad veganism is, instead of advocating for their own cause? Why they search for and interview all these so-called "ex-vegans"? Why do they care so much about veganism? And why are they so anti-scientific?

I don't know what you're talking about. I get the information from high-quality youtube channels, podcasts and highly educated, kind and open-minded people. 

I ain't got time to follow a silly opinion war between carnivores and vegans. 

You clearly live in a dream and don't have enough complex thinking to see that there is no chance all people will or should become vegans and not enough open-mindedness to explore alternatives. 

If you really love animals and nature so much, read this book. If you dare to broaden your horizons. I can guarantee you haven't even seriously considered none of the alternatives that are available, except for pushing the agenda and ideology of global veganism. I know it's hard for you to see other alternatives and you can't do it. Your mind clearly resists. It's clinging to one and only way. But there is no one way. Many rays lead to the same sun. 

We all want fairness for animals we all see the cruelty but you don't see the stupidity of thinking that all should be vegans.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07ZKYFGBJ/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Intraplanetary

[Intraplanetary]

7 minutes ago, datamonster said:

Let's show them how much we care by slitting their throats and eating them  I never said that everyone should be vegan, don't know where you picked that up...

You're stuck in black and white thinking. No complexity and nuance, at all.

[integral]

@datamonster Skipped to 1:45:52, the green to yellow transition

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by integral

[integral]

@datamonster

Skipped to 49:42. Conflicting Ideologies. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by integral

[Intraplanetary]

10 minutes ago, integral said:

@datamonster

Skipped to 49:42. Conflicting Ideologies. 

Bang! 

[integral]

@datamonster @Intraplanetary Found the solution, The Meta-Vegan

https://flaviomasi.it/en/works/meta-vegan/

Joke.

Really try to imagine what a multi-perspectival vegan would look like? Brain storm the idea. 

How to take veganism into the meta level. The Meta-Veganism movement. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by integral

[Intraplanetary]

25 minutes ago, datamonster said:

This is exactly the kind of herd mentality I was talking about earlier btw.

Just admit man, that was a brilliantly relevant point. You got what you asked 

[integral]

On 10/17/2020 at 2:04 PM, Fran11 said:

If you are gonna contradict or question the most importan and large health organization in the world, which has made this conclussion by looking over lots of controlled scientific studies, you have to at the very least provide some solid non-anecdotal evidence to make your case. Otherwise you are just making shit up.

There is no science happening in this domain, there is just the appearance of science. This is why i was pressuring you to doubt your intuition, but that was not the right method... There are many communities each with a mountain of "evidence' supporting there beliefs, The only way to navigate this is to learn from every perspective and carefully experiment. Pitting evidence against evidence is meaningless, The biology we are trying to navigate is counter-intuitive and the landscape is deeply muddled by financial incentives. 

We can have a discussion about why this case, In short systemic social corruption and the entangled nature of science, culture and social systems. 

[Fran11]

@integral You are over-exaggerating my claim in your mind. I didn't say vegan diets are the best for every person and propouse. 

All I said was that people who really cannot tolerate a proper vegan diet (which is not the same as having an allergy to a particular food, or a bad planned diet) are extremely rare exceptions. 

If you have "mountains of evidence" against this, just provide some.

 

[Intraplanetary]

6 hours ago, datamonster said:

@integral @Intraplanetary Since you only believe it if comes out of Leo's mouth, here's another one for the jukebox 

 

Sorry to break this to you but, you're a devil too   Or you think that being a vegan makes you an angel?  

[integral]

14 hours ago, datamonster said:

This is exactly the kind of herd mentality I was talking about earlier btw.

We are not high-fiving each other in celebration of a victory. This is not us attacking or beating you up. Its all just how your experiencing it.

This is about learning not winning. 

This is not a competition. This is not our mind against your mind. 

 

[integral]

15 hours ago, Fran11 said:

If you have "mountains of evidence" against this, just provide some.

Its all the same evidence. Every community interprets the evidence from there perspective. The conclusions written at the end of studies are interpretations. Would you like doctors to explain the data from there perspective? 

15 hours ago, Fran11 said:

All I said was that people who really cannot tolerate a proper vegan diet (which is not the same as having an allergy to a particular food, or a bad planned diet) are extremely rare exceptions. 

They all have issues. The damaging effects of stress express themselves differently, most of which is unnoticed or deceptive like simply aging at a faster rate. Just because its unnoticed does not make it minor. People quickly adapt to a new "normal" baseline, especially as changes build slowly and they are told by culture everything that is happening to them is "normal" with age. Its not. For all we know, we are built for near immortality where the person remains in perfect youth until they reach the dividing limit of there cells. Your skin is not suppose to wrinkle, your hair is not supposed to fall out or turn white. These are the symptoms of people who sabotage there body for 60 years. but we are conditioned into believing this is normal because its common. A false pattern. 

The blood sugar roller coaster that a vegan diet comes with hammers the body. But that stress will be confused for other issues. 

It should be clear that there is no evidence. Its about understanding the ground we are walking on. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by integral

[Fran11]

20 minutes ago, integral said:

Its all the same evidence. Every community interprets the evidence from there perspective. The conclusions written at the end of studies are interpretations. Would you like doctors to explain the data from there perspective? 

Ok, then show me a resonable study interpretation which claims that a well planned vegan diet is harmful.

You think you are being multiperspectival and meta, but you are just denying the validity of the evidence and making unjustified claims.

[integral]

9 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

Ok, then show me a resonable study interpretation which claims that a well planned vegan diet is harmful.

Never made this claim. Each community makes claims for them-self, they do not spend energy proving other diet are bad. They indirectly do. 

10 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

You think you are being multiperspectival and meta, but you are just denying the validity of the evidence and making unjustified claims.

You looked at your own evidence? 

[integral]

10 minutes ago, datamonster said:

What we should be interested in is the current scientific consensus. I posted the positions of major global health organizations above. These give you an idea.

They are worthless, you do not understand the ground we are standing on. You do not understand society. 

[Fran11]

2 hours ago, integral said:

Never made this claim. Each community makes claims for them-self, they do not spend energy proving other diet are bad. They indirectly do. 

Yes that's why processed meats are classified Group 1 carcinogen LOL

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Fran11

[integral]

@Fran11 How is this possible? All of your content on actualized.org that ive read is exceptional. Except for this??? Where you have unshakable faith in science and consense.