Stage Blue Spirituality (New Age = Satan?)

[LfcCharlie4]

So, I was speaking with a friend who’s family is very Christian, and she asked about spirituality etc, and I said about non-duality, spiritual teachers, meditation, awakening etc 

She said, she has never been “allowed” to do these practices as in Some forms of Christianity it is seen as “Satanic” and basically not following the path of Jesus. 
 

I remember seeing an article regarding Eckhart Tolle saying you had to pick Jesus or him, and this lady had picked Jesus and fundamental religion. 
 

As soon as she said this, it showed me how sneaky stages can be to keep their grip & control, to keep things the way that best suits them- lots of believers etc. 
 

My question  is then, how do we help people see through this? My approach was how happy & peace I feel & how without awakening none of this would’ve been possible. 

 

Or, is it simply them having their own awakening and seeing for themselves! 
 

here’s an article that shows these beliefs well- 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.crosswalk.com/faith/spiritual-life/what-is-new-age-religion-and-why-cant-christians-get-on-board-11573681.html%3famp=1

 

[LfcCharlie4]

Also, they tend to discredit Non-Duality by describing it with simplistic terms such as 

Oneness = Monism 

God / The Self is everything = pantheism

 I guess they also deny people’s awakenings, happiness & peace. 
 

Im so thankful of Spiral Dynamics to help understand the psychology of different people at different stages of development.

[Shin]

Let them be, only explain how good you feel if they ask themselves, and explain how you did it without anything that could be interpreted as dogmas or beliefs.

Otherwise you're not doing anything fundamentally different than a priest trying to convert a non believer.

Accept them how they are, and this will become a non-issue ☺

 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Shin great point! 
 

it’s more I just feel sorry for how much these people are limiting themselves, but like you say, let them be, tbf, she’s really open to discussing it, and looking at different perspectives.

I also meant how do you disprove this notion, like obviously we know it’s baloney, not to convince anyone necessarily.

[Frenk]

Maybe what we call new age today has existed way before religion?

[LfcCharlie4]

@Frenk Or maybe some religion is awakened beings teachings written down by non-awakened beings & used to control people  

Who knows...

[Gesundheit]

You don't yet see the biases of your own lenses. But I guess it's inevitable.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Gesundheit very true

Are you saying tbis as a general statement, or as in I’m being biased against this statement? 

Edited October 9, 2020 by LfcCharlie4

[Shin]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Shin great point! 
 

it’s more I just feel sorry for how much these people are limiting themselves, but like you say, let them be, tbf, she’s really open to discussing it, and looking at different perspectives.

I also meant how do you disprove this notion, like obviously we know it’s baloney, not to convince anyone necessarily.

Think about you 10 years ago, do you feel sorry for your younger self ?

[Seraphim]

What if you tell them to discover spirituality for themselves, trying different things, and if Christianity is the real truth then they will find their way back to it, and with an even stronger faith this time.

Also, the historical evidence shows that Jesus was the leader of a Jewish sect, and when he died his close followers continued with their Jewish traditions, it wasn't anything like the modern Christianity. And throughout history, the church has always said that the world will end soon, but they were always wrong, they don't know everything

[The Lucid Dreamer]

Trying to get people to jump or skip certain stages of epistemological development in my experience seems to be futile.  If they aren’t even in the Rational stage yet, you certainly aren’t going to be able to get them to understand the Post Rational. 
 

One of my co-workers was talking to me about how she’s starting to question her faith and as soon as she said that I got this urge to start talking to her about non-duality, but I quickly realized that that was far too advanced of a concept for her while she’s still in the pre-rational stage.  So instead of going balls to the wall non-dual on her, I decided to refer her to some philosophy/science books and documentaries that had led me out of Christianity and into the Rational stage/Atheism years ago.  She has watched and read a lot of them and is more or less an atheist at this point. She has now seen why rationalism is superior to religious dogma.  Once she settles into that, I may start introducing her to more advanced epistemology.  I’ve kind of made her my project, haha. 

I really believe for people to have truly grounded epistemological understanding, they have to go through the subsequent stages of development and work through all the questions and philosophical problems in a certain order. Perhaps there are exceptions, but at least for me, I don’t think I could have progressed in any other way than I did. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Seraphim great idea.

@Shin I do, as I know how much better life could be! And, I know the hedonistic, materialistic life I was heading for. 
 

@Husseinisdoingfine LOL, I’ve seen this guy on so many vegan videos, it always baffles me when people regress like this. I guess it comes from mental instability, or not solidifying in a stage, or what else do you think it is? Maybe the need to have a distinct ideology & an enemy in this case Vegans & New Agee’s, which are often the same.

@The Lucid Dreamer The funny thing is, she already seems like an Orange / Green, but I guess being brought up in that environment will always have an effect! 

[Gesundheit]

41 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Gesundheit 

Are you saying tbis as a general statement, or as in I’m being biased against this statement? 

What I'm saying is that there's no need to push anyone anywhere or towards anything. The thing that wants others to change is blinded by its own preferences and can't see beyond them. There is no path, but only a fool can't walk it. And others being on their path is no different from a "no path". It only seems like a path from another path's pov. Twisted and paradoxical, but it's probably easy for someone at your level to get it.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Gesundheit you’re right, there’s no need to influence anything, or “force” it especially. 
 

Seems it’s best left alone

Thank you! 
 

on another note @Husseinisdoingfine I saw a commment on Bobbys videos explaining him well, in that he’s a man of extremes either way, and has to then prove these extremes right basically. 
 

Also, has this been mentioned on the forum Lol-

 

[Shin]

@LfcCharlie4

How could you be how you are now without everything happening the way it did ?

Would you even be you if just one percent changed ?

How do you know your past isn't the best that it could ever have been for you to be as peaceful as of now ?

How do you know those people aren't exactly where they are now so they can later find whatever will help them to find peace ?

Edited October 9, 2020 by Shin

[LfcCharlie4]

@Shin You’re certainly right, everything that happened, happened exactly as I needed to. 
 

But, you just asked if I felt sorry for younger self, that was all. 
 

Im certainly not denying it happened the way it meant to, and as you say, for these people it’s the same.

God works in mysterious ways

I guess it’s a refined skill knowing when to help & when not to, it’s easy to always think you should, hence why I’m not a teacher ?

Edited October 9, 2020 by LfcCharlie4

[Gesundheit]

50 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

What if you tell them to discover spirituality for themselves, trying different things, and if Christianity is the real truth then they will find their way back to it, and with an even stronger faith this time.

Also, the historical evidence shows that Jesus was the leader of a Jewish sect, and when he died his close followers continued with their Jewish traditions, it wasn't anything like the modern Christianity. And throughout history, the church has always said that the world will end soon, but they were always wrong, they don't know everything

"Soon" - out of infinity - could mean a billion years, or a billion times more, or more 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Gesundheit]

53 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

There's a lunatic on YouTube named Bobby's perspective who was a former New Ager who converted to orthodox Christianity and now he rails against Veganism and New Age

 

It's both refreshing and mind-opening to see some potential evidence against Spiral Dynamics. It makes me wonder if the developmental models are biased by the progressive agenda.

[Shin]

25 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Shin You’re certainly right, everything that happened, happened exactly as I needed to. 
 

But, you just asked if I felt sorry for younger self, that was all. 
 

Im certainly not denying it happened the way it meant to, and as you say, for these people it’s the same.

God works in mysterious ways

I guess it’s a refined skill knowing when to help & when not to, it’s easy to always think you should, hence why I’m not a teacher ?

That was more questions in order to contemplate rather than to answers to someone on the forum

[LfcCharlie4]

@Gesundheit How do you explain such regression? 
 

I think SD isn’t necessarily meant for individual evaluations always, as this seems very much a personality thing, like when you browse his channel & how he tends to the extremes, I’m sure it will be something else in a few years l.