How much of self-betterment is hard work vs luck of draw?

[Hansu]

So, I came across this video from Veritasium on success being luck vs hard work:

Its a really interesting video, but it also has me puzzled. Using the hockey players analogy from the video, it was simply a luck of draw that I happened to be born with right circumstances that made me interested on working myself and becoming the captain of my own ship. Sure, there is hard work, determination and the tools that helped me achieve what I can only pin as results of self-help, but the major factor is supposedly the fact that I initially became interested in self-help. Because of this, I got advantage over non-actualizing people when it comes to self-help related topics. Hence, it was luck of draw that I achieved what I achieved.

I feel like this is some kind of devilry. From now on, if I dont succeed in something, I can just pin it on not being lucky enough to get interested in the correct aspects. In other words, Im no longer the captain of my own ship. I think the devilry could be in the idea of success. Maybe the idea of success is illusionary? Or maybe the idea of luck is some kind of primitive tool of the devil that stops you from achieving greatness by discrediting your own work and success, which you use to bullshit yourself out of doing hard work?

What is your thought on the matter?

[RobertZ]

Here are some reflections. 

The video points out that often-overlooked external factors have significant population effects.

The difference between correlation and causation contributes to this paradox. For example, people born in families with top 10% income in America live, on average, approximately 12 years longer than people born in the bottom 50% of income (sorry, I forget the exact statistic). However, a wealthy individual might live long or short. Without specific evidence, we cannot conclude that wealth caused a particular  wealthy individual to live longer.

Or, a person might be lucky for being half an inch taller than the average height (suppose that height is associated with generations wealth). Still, a person’s height might have little or nothing to do with the person’s wealth later in life.

The video gives some examples of people overestimating the effects their agency (as opposed to external factors). For most of the 11 astronautic candidates selected from 18,300 Astronaut applicants, a tiny amount of luck played the determinative factor in their selection. Even if luck played a tiny factor, luck was the determining factor (above hard work, skill, and other internal factors) for most of the successful competitors.

Some people see their agency (e.g., hard work and intelligence) as the fair cause of their success. Even delusional beliefs in control are associated with success and social  entitlement. An emphasis on extrinsic factors (like social determinants) increased likability and generosity. We look at the specific causes of a success contextually.

“In conclusion, I want to thank my amazing friends and family  for my success. I also want to thank my own intelligence and my long hours of work for my success.  And I want to thank gravity for holding me down. Where would I be, without the fact that I’m half an inch taller than the average person in my community? I am so appreciative that I am tall.  Come on people: my tallness is part of this momentous achievement. Let’s give a hand for my height. And a cheer for gravity! 

“Always be born in a first-world nation. And give me money because I am already pretty rich, and I pay it forward by creating the hope of obedient labour for unemployed people. Thank you.”

[Gesundheit]

Luck. There's nothing else but luck.

It gets more interesting, there's no difference between being successful or a loser. The only difference is the appearance. But the quality of life is technically identical to every other creature.

People who talk about success and link their current place to certain things and believe that they actually did something to be where they are, are delusional. What they actually do is that they focus their thoughts on less than 0.0000000000001% of reality, and disregard the rest 99.999999999999% of reality. They think that by maintaining the 0.0000000000001%, they should be able to maintain their position or double their achievements.

And while that may be the case, it's not because of the 0.0000000000001%, but rather mainly because of the other 99.999999999999%. They choose to focus on one finite set of events, which has no proof to be any more valid or better than all other sets of events. And also, they forget that they couldn't be there if me and you weren't here. People's success hinges upon other people's losing, and vice-versa.

The gratitude rich people feel is not actually gratitude, but rather ego. They're only grateful that they "are better" than others.

Nobody knows anything. All advice is BS, literally. It's like buying fish that isn't yet caught. There's no way you can better yourself or gain more.

And finally, life is a gamble. You can never predict the future. You could be doing the worst shit you could think of and then out of a sudden you become a millionaire. Or you could be doing self-help seriously and non-stop for 40 years and still get nowhere.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Nahm]

@Hansu

Put what you really want on a dreamboard, and revel in the synchronicity that ensues. People come out of the wood work in the most co-incidental ways. Luck & hard work are hindsight contextualizations. 

[Hansu]

18 hours ago, RobertZ said:

“In conclusion, I want to thank my amazing friends and family  for my success. I also want to thank my own intelligence and my long hours of work for my success.  And I want to thank gravity for holding me down. Where would I be, without the fact that I’m half an inch taller than the average person in my community? I am so appreciative that I am tall.  Come on people: my tallness is part of this momentous achievement. Let’s give a hand for my height. And a cheer for gravity! 

Lol

You make good points. Its not so much that success can be pinpointed on luck, but that we underestimate how much luck has to do with out success. Its what we spin out of lucky events that is the work. Like how you might be lucky to be born in a very poor family in a country where education is free, and you put in hard work to go through college to get out of low income. The same is with a rich family in a country where education is expensive.

18 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

The gratitude rich people feel is not actually gratitude, but rather ego. They're only grateful that they "are better" than others.

I feel like this also applies to my gratitude of all the results I've got from self-help. What kind of gratitude would be non-egoic gratitude?

 

[Danioover9000]

   I think it's a bit of both luck and skill development. It's a balancing act.

[Consept]

Luck is basically causation from a human perspective. Hard work is a factor but then you could even argue that it was luck that you were born with a certain work ethic or that you were lucky enough to have parents that drummed it into you, or that you didnt have anything when you were young so that encouraged your work ethic. We like to think that we decided to work hard and so if we are successful thats why, but there are plenty of dishwashers that will work harder than a millionaire ever worked in their life but get no where near their success. 

Its an illusion of control that makes us feel good and really only serves to let us feel better than those we perceive to be below us, because if they only made the same choices and worked as hard as me theyd be where i am now. Its a clever illusion as it keeps everyone working hard and keeping society moving, but an illusion none the less. Its a good way to keep the less advantaged down as well because you can just blame it on them instead of inequality, genius actually 

[Gesundheit]

3 hours ago, Consept said:

Luck is basically causation from a human perspective. Hard work is a factor but then you could even argue that it was luck that you were born with a certain work ethic or that you were lucky enough to have parents that drummed it into you, or that you didnt have anything when you were young so that encouraged your work ethic. We like to think that we decided to work hard and so if we are successful thats why, but there are plenty of dishwashers that will work harder than a millionaire ever worked in their life but get no where near their success. 

Its an illusion of control that makes us feel good and really only serves to let us feel better than those we perceive to be below us, because if they only made the same choices and worked as hard as me theyd be where i am now. Its a clever illusion as it keeps everyone working hard and keeping society moving, but an illusion none the less. Its a good way to keep the less advantaged down as well because you can just blame it on them instead of inequality, genius actually 

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