Spiral Dynamics Stage Red Examples Mega-Thread

[Rasheed]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Red loves Red.

Which is why Trump loves all the Red authoritarians around the world and they love him.

Bro, you were so on-point in your global politics blog video, where you said, Trump only cares about himself. Same thing applies to Don King. It's just pure toxic red. 

This 30 second Mike Tyson's talk is just spot on. 1000% perfect description of toxic red:

This is just 180 degree shift of every actualized.org teaching.  

+ Look how Don King's ego mind rationalize his behavior with itself, like Trump. Without that he would have existential crisis. 

+ Like Trump, he pushes all most primitive, low conscious buttons on this amazing boxers, like color of their skin, how white people hate them. Making them believe, that he is some nice guy who cares about them and will help them. Exactly like Trump on poor people. They think, Trump will bring them good 1950s back, while he does not even give a shit about those people. 

And biggest mindfuck is that, these guys are devils, like me, and everyone else. Same tricks Don King's ego mind, Trump's ego mind, it plays on everybody. But these guys are even on another level...

But at the same time, I kinda still feel compassion for this Don King dude, probably his environment made him that way, like Trump. Horrible. 

Makes me more aware of devil within me.

+ On that wikipedia page, it's written that Don King's son is exact same product like him, who participated in stealing money from these champion boxers.

(I haven't read or watched but) Entire book and movie is written about his devilry and Trump is idiot enough to bring Don King to introduce him...WTF?

https://www.amazon.com/Life-Crimes-Don-King-America/dp/0974020109

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Rasheed

[Leo Gura]

@Rasheed

 

[Artsu]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Pokemon is generally blue with some red/orange competitive aspects. A fight doesn't end in the death of a pokemon. It emphasizes the importance of training, discipline and character. Team Rocket is red  

Team rocket are a criminal gang though. Idk but i feel that that shouldnt characterise red, because we all pass through red dont we? Yet only certain people develop a criminal mindset.

At the age i was when pokemon was first popular (7 to 10) the kids wouldn't have been blue. I think blue is more an adolescent thing. When i was blue my pokemon phase had ended and i was getting in to music and philosophy and buddhism and stuff. I was searching for a culture to identify with i suppose.

No, if SD works how i think it does, then pokemon would primarily be red. Or at least that was the focus when it was popular in primary school.

I would think of training and discipline as related to red. Red processes the hard stuff, its our shadow. Shadow means the opposition to our ego, not anything criminal. So because of that it is brought in wherever there is opposition, rivalry etc. which is a big part of pokemon.

Though it also has blue aspects. I mean the people that made pokemon are of course above red, but it seemed made for a red audience.

Kinda like how Jordan Peterson is above orange, but his talks are generally geared towards an orange audience, because thats the age group he's speaking to.

I mean I'm assuming SD does work how i think it does. I'm familiar with the advancement of consciousness that comes with development up the stages, so that would make red the late childhood mindset, and i think difficulty and opposition is a big part of that.

I would perhaps even associate the simplistic, repetitive game play with red because it relates to how one spends idle time. But I'm still thinking that through.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Artsu

[Carl-Richard]

5 minutes ago, Artsu said:

Team rocket are a criminal gang though. Idk but i feel that that shouldnt characterise red, because we all pass through red dont we? Yet only certain people develop a criminal mindset.

Criminality is widely driven by a rejection of stage blue values (law, order, rules, purpose) and a cultivation of red (egocentricity, power, greed, impulsivity). The reason that you're following rules is that you're doing it for a higher good. When you're stage red, you are already the highest good. Nobody can tell you what to do unless they dominate you physically. The idea that the main characters are good and that Team Rocket is evil is fundamentally a blue concept.

 

9 minutes ago, Artsu said:

I would think of training and discipline as related to red.

The reason why training and discipline is blue is that it presupposes the idea of working towards something greater than what you currently are (another form of higher good). When you're stage red, you'll just do whatever you want. Discipline, training, and confinement requires the ability to look beyond your immediate impulsive desires and worshipping an ideal. Stage red only worship themselves. They believe they're the best. There is no need for any improvement. Trump is a good example of that.

[Carl-Richard]

35 minutes ago, Artsu said:

At the age i was when pokemon was first popular (7 to 10) the kids wouldn't have been blue. I think blue is more an adolescent thing. When i was blue my pokemon phase had ended and i was getting in to music and philosophy and buddhism and stuff. I was searching for a culture to identify with i suppose.

Blue tends to come online at 7-8 years of age according to this map:

Of course you don't grow out of red immediately either. Red is a big reason why adolescents struggle with impulsivity and respecting authority. Just because you've entered a new stage doesn't mean you've left the others behind.

[TrustTheProcess]

discipline is blue. 

I'd say pokemon is red/blue with some orange... damn y'all are getting me nostalgic

[AtheisticNonduality]

Boston Marathon Bombers:

 

[Artsu]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Blue tends to come online at 7-8 years of age according to this map:

 

Of course you don't grow out of red immediately either. Red is a big reason why adolescents struggle with impulsivity and respecting authority. Just because you've entered a new stage doesn't mean you've left the others behind.

I thought the majority of people dont even make it to green?

I was orange from 15-19 i think. But again i am still learning SD so i could be wrong.

[Artsu]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Blue tends to come online at 7-8 years of age according to this map:

Of course you don't grow out of red immediately either. Red is a big reason why adolescents struggle with impulsivity and respecting authority. Just because you've entered a new stage doesn't mean you've left the others behind.

I can see now that there should be a level between orange and green. SD lumps self actualising with the first level of self transcendence, humanity consciousness.

I would shift all of the levels up one for age (and expand the length of blue) and add in more variation for individual difference.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Artsu

[Rasheed]

@Leo Gura Imagine what would happen if Libertarians got their way. They would tell these champion boxers to take personal responsibility...that would  get ugly quick. This proves how libertarian ideology is total garbage

Edited July 17, 2020 by Rasheed

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, Artsu said:

I would shift all of the levels up one for age (and expand the length of blue) and add in more variation for individual difference.

The ages listed shouldn't be interpreted as the duration of each stage but rather the time window where the majority people enter that stage. It's fine that blue only spans from 7-8. Childhood development at that stage is comparatively very rapid. In primary school, the classes above your own are like sages and giants.

[Rasheed]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griselda_Blanco

[Carl-Richard]

I know this isn't a music mega-thread, but still this is kinda interesting. I've never really understood the meaning behind the song title, but I tried digging a bit and I found some interpretation of it. Apparently, it's about Satan taking over heaven and killing everybody there, thus "raining blood". Idk about you, but that makes the image in my head so much more haunting than it used to be 

 

[Artsu]

Metal is quite advanced music. It focuses on dark and violent realities, but i wouldn't say it's a low form of music. The power in a song like raining blood fits the experience of being orange more than the experience of being red.

I guess though that you could consider the lyrical themes of metal symbolic of integrating one's shadow, which is red, because red represents, in my view, the opposition and critique of the basic ego.

Although, in that diagram it put red as the start of egoic consciousness. I would disagree. At purple i think you are focused on your own ego and maybe seeing other people as almost extensions of onself. In red you become aware of other egos but often in a conflicted way because not all egos get on well.

At blue you expand your consciousness again to include things which compliment your ego while being separate from it. So this can include accepting outside forms of morality as a desirable thing rather than the punishment/disciplining of red. Blue imo also relates to attraction to the opposite sex, and i generally put this level as being adolescence.

Orange completes the ego. The ego has now integrated with other egos, and it becomes about who can master all the different sides of a discipline. It's stil a part of ego consciousness, because you're viewing things in terms of components and relation to the basic ego, rather than a unified, transcendent self.

Then i think another level should precede green, where you become whole and unified.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Artsu

[AtheisticNonduality]

@Leo Gura

What do you think of these heavy metal lyrics that are supposedly low consciousness?

[Intro]

"See, I think drugs have done some good things for us, I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor - go home tonight and take all your albums, all your tapes, and all your CDs and burn 'em. 'Cause you know what? The musicians who've made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years... real fucking high on drugs."

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather."

"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, that's what it is, okay? Keep that in mind at all times, thank you."

[Verse 1]
Dreaming of that face again
It's bright and blue and shimmering
Grinning wide
And comforting me with its three warm and wild eyes

[Verse 2]
On my back and tumbling
Down that hole and back again (And back again)
Rising up
And wiping the webs and the dew from my withered eye

[Refrain]
In, out, in, out, in, out

[Verse 3]
A child's rhyme stuck in my head
It said that life is but a dream
I've spent so many years in question
To find I've known this all along

[Chorus]
So good to see you
I've missed you so much
So glad it's over
I've missed you so much
Came out to watch you play
Why are you running away?
Came out to watch you play
Why are you running?

[Verse 4]
Shrouding all the ground around me
Is this holy crow above me
Black as holes within a memory
And blue as our new second sun
I stick my hand into the shadow
To pull the pieces from the sand
Which I attempt to reassemble
To see just who I might have been
I do not recognize the vessel
But the eyes seem so familiar
Like phosphorescent desert buttons
Singing one familiar song

[Chorus]
So good to see you
I've missed you so much
So glad it's over
I've missed you so much
Came out to watch you play
Why are you running away?
Came out to watch you play
Why are you running away?

[Refrain]
Prying open my third eye
Prying open my third eye
Prying open my third eye
Prying open my third eye

[Chorus]
So good to see you once again
I thought that you were hiding
And you thought that I had run away
Chasing the tail of dogma

[Refrain]
I opened my eye, I opened my eye
I opened my eye and there we were
I opened my eye, I opened my eye
I opened my eye and there we were

[Chorus]
So good to see you once again
I thought that you were hiding from me
And you thought that I had run away
Chasing a trail of smoke and reason

[Outro]
Prying open my third eye
Prying open my third eye
Prying open my third eye
Prying open my third eye
Prying open my third eye
Prying open my third eye
Prying open my third eye
Prying open my third eye
Prying open my third eye
Prying open my third eye

  

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by AtheisticNonduality

[Carl-Richard]

@AtheisticNonduality @Artsu

Look, Tool is obviously a spiritually-minded band and there is nothing to doubt there. However, the core sound that defines metal music (loudness, harshness, distortion, dissonance) is at the end of the day lower consciousness than lighter music. It's self-evident - it doesn't need explaining. Now, this does absolutely not take away from the fact that heavy music can be beautiful and entrancing, and it's certainly an artform that deserves respect. It has to be that way, because people love listening to it. It used to be the only thing I listened to for years of my life. My point is that it's possible to recognize different levels of spiritual "purity" without denying the validity of other aspects (musical complexity, authenticity, virtuosity etc.). I don't think much more needs to be said on this topic. It has been thorougly gone through in this thread once already.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Abhishaik]

would this be considered stage red? pretty catchy song

 

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Abhishaik

[Artsu]

16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

@AtheisticNonduality @Artsu

Look, Tool is obviously a spiritually-minded band and there is nothing to doubt there. However, the core sound that defines metal music (loudness, harshness, distortion, dissonance) is at the end of the day lower consciousness than lighter music. It's self-evident - it doesn't need explaining. Now, this does absolutely not take away from the fact that heavy music can be beautiful and entrancing, and it's certainly an artform that deserves respect. It has to be that way, because people love listening to it. It used to be the only thing I listened to for years of my life. My point is that it's possible to recognize different levels of spiritual "purity" without denying the validity of other aspects (musical complexity, authenticity, virtuosity etc.). I don't think much more needs to be said on this topic. It has been thorougly gone through in this thread once already.

Distorted music does not have to be low consciousness.

Metal is high music much of the time, and i mean Slayer moreso than Tool. It's arguable whether Tool is metal.

Metal is youth music for much part, so it probably doesnt go that high usually. Bands like Burzum and Emperor started when the musicians were teenagers, but the content is quite advanced.

I'll recommend the band Cynic.

[AtheisticNonduality]

Yes, metal is often way more evolved than Stage Orange commercial pop that uses lighter tones.

1 hour ago, Abhishaik said:

would this be considered stage red? pretty catchy song

 

 

The lyrics there are definitely describing a Red life situation, although I'm not sure what level of consciousness it is being contextualized at.  Red, Blue, maybe Orange?

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Yes, metal is often way more evolved than Stage Orange commercial pop that uses lighter tones.

Historically, lyrically, and stylistically, metal music that is based on the 80s era (the height of the genre) has been mainly orange and below. Metal borrows a lot of the orange cultural undertones of punk rock (anti-establishment, pro-individualism, self-expression), and some sub-genres dive into red as we've seen examples of here. I can't think of any examples of bands with green values from that era. I posted an example of green 80s music in the corresponding mega-thread if you want to see what it's like. It tends to be stylistically and lyrically post-modern: often ironic, blending genres, doesn't take itself too seriously, and critical of orange.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Carl-Richard