Panic from L-Theanine & Nootropics advice for AD(H)D

[Max_V]

Hi everyone,

Yesterday I took my first dose of L-theanine which was one pill that contained 100 mgs. I mainly did this because I got diagnosed with ADD as a child, and recently with ASD as well. There are multiple manifestations that these alterations of brain and nervous-system types emit on my daily life, but the most prominent one is a huge lack concentration/scattered mind and a general sense of bodily stress/anxiety. This deeply bothers me because the type of work and study I do would benefit a lot from me having a crisp and sharp cognition. So anyway, I noticed very quickly a certain calm coming over me. It was odd though, the baseline bodily stress and anxiety left, but the unresolved psychological stress and it's concequences I could still feel. This was in a general sense really amazing as it allowed me to calmly think and contemplate. But then after a couple of hours, I started experience a sensation of deep angst and panic throughout my body. The same kind I would get if I were to drink a big cup of black coffee (I'm very sensitive to caffeine). It is still very early in my experimentation with this substance as I have now only taken it twice though had the same result on both days, I'm also going through a big psychological shift that could perhaps have a relation to this panic in my body. All in all, there is still some observation I have to do. So tomorrow and the day after I'm not taking it, and then after that I'll try again so that afterwards I might be able to postulate if L-Theanine is really to blame or if it comes from a different source.

Also, I read somewhere that one could have a genetic mutation that could make it so that L-Theanine has the opposite effect than it normally has on most people. This mutation was also mostly found amongst those that have AD(H)D as well. It is called MTHFR. Perhaps this could be the case with me? I don't know, never got tested.

I was wondering if there are some people here that have experience with Nootropics, and might have suggestions and/or advice for what I could do or try concerning my cognitive state. It feels deeply heartbreaking to want to do so much, but be limited by how my brain and body functions. I want to learn and help the world so bad. I really hope there is a way for me to fix this, or make it more bearable and have less impact. 

Anyway, thanks for reading this all the way through. 

All the best,

Max_V

Edited May 1, 2020 by Max_V

[Villager Albert]

Hey Max, do you also get these side effects when you eat grains or drink white tea? These contain exogenous GABA. L-Theanine doesn't but I think it would explain a lot.

Never heard of the gene defect you mentioned but if it's not because your body tries to regulate GABA, it's probably the gene.

[Max_V]

@Villager Albert

Could you give me an example of white tea?

I cut out bread completely because it made me feel very heavy, but no similar effect of anxiety and those panicky sensations

5 minutes ago, Villager Albert said:

body tries to regulate GABA

I think that is what this gene does. Instead of generating more of the 'good' brain waves and less of the 'bad' as everyone describes the characteristic of L-theanine, it does the opposite. But again, no idea if I have that or not.

[flowboy]

19 hours ago, Max_V said:

It feels deeply heartbreaking to want to do so much, but be limited by how my brain and body functions. I want to learn and help the world so bad. I really hope there is a way for me to fix this, or make it more bearable and have less impact. 

Oh man. This is exactly how I used to feel a couple years ago. Was diagnosed with ADD too. Damn near no one knew how to help me, either, and that was frustrating.

[Michael569]

21 hours ago, Max_V said:

Also, I read somewhere that one could have a genetic mutation that could make it so that L-Theanine has the opposite effect than it normally has on most people. This mutation was also mostly found amongst those that have AD(H)D as well. It is called MTHFR. Perhaps this could be the case with me? I don't know, never got tested.

only 15% of people DO NOT have MTHFR polymorphism (mild to moderate mutation) of some sort. It is extremely common. That being said you could be something called "heterozygous" where you would have inherited a slight default gene from both parents which would disrupt your methylation cycle and could lead to: 
1. deficient production of dopamine, serotonine and adrenaline
2. homocysteine buildup (this can be tested)

But before you go testing yourself ensure that your dietary intake of B12 , folate and B6 is fine. Also ensuring a good intake of essential amino acid and zinc is essential. Alternatively, you could try a B-complex that includes: B12 as methylcobalamin, B6 as Pyridoxal-5-phosphate and B9 as
5-methyltetrahydrofoltate. Usually these things are called something in terms "methylated B complex"

[Alextvvv]

@Michael569 I read that you used to recommend cyanocobalamin over methylcobalamin, and now rather the latter. What made you change your mind ?

[Espaim]

That's a very weird reaction really.

Try 50mg and 200mg(only if you think you can handle it) on different days to see how you feel.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Espaim

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, Alextvvv said:

569 I read that you used to recommend cyanocobalamin over methylcobalamin, and now rather the latter. What made you change your mind ?

for some therapeutic purposes, it is better to use methylated form of B12 simply because it is more bioavailable in the methylation cycle.  However, cyanocobalamin has better shelf-life stability so it is important the MC is coated in a protective capsule. 

[Alextvvv]

@Michael569  Ok thanks. I might change to MC in the future

[Scholar]

7 minutes ago, Alextvvv said:

@Michael569  Ok thanks. I might change to MC in the future

What's actually more important is to take it sublingually. I had a b12 deficiency due to taking too little of an oral dosage (5mcg) and switched to 500mcg sublingually which helped me a lot.

Sublingual gets absorbed directly and therefore omits some of the possible absorption difficulties that can occur in some people.

[Michael569]

@Scholar administration is actually not that relevant. Have a look at this. Scroll down to the chart, after 8 weeks there was little difference in routes of administration. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1884303/. Difference between the highest and lowest was only about 38mcg. However they only looked at serum B12 which is the least reliable marker of real B12 status so kind hard to tell. Only holo-transcobalamin is the true relevant marker of B12 everything else is not reliable. 

I think in your case the 100 fold dose increase was more relevant

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Michael569

[Scholar]

59 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

@Scholar administration is actually not that relevant. Have a look at this. Scroll down to the chart, after 8 weeks there was little difference in routes of administration. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1884303/. Difference between the highest and lowest was only about 38mcg. However they only looked at serum B12 which is the least reliable marker of real B12 status so kind hard to tell. Only holo-transcobalamin is the true relevant marker of B12 everything else is not reliable. 

I think in your case the 100 fold dose increase was more relevant

Could be, but I don't know how much these studies account for malabsorption issues. To me it seems hard to argue how sublingual tablets are not always saver to take than oral ones, especially now that gut issues seem to have become more prevalent. I seem to have issues with gluten consumption and I definitely do not want to risk to run into b12 deficiency again.

 

Vitamin B12 Deficiency in Untreated Celiac Disease

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11280545/

[Alextvvv]

@Scholar  I have issues with gluten aswell, but no celiac disease. So sublingual is not absolutely necessary for me, but not a bad idea either.