God is not The Absolute.

[ivankiss]

@SOUL So if I got it right...You're more enlightened than I am, right? And I'm the ego 

This is just my choice of expression. One of many. I see nothing wrong with poetic story telling. Sometimes it's far more effective in painting the picture. You do realize that's all we do here? Painting a picture?

However, if it would be more easily digestible for you - I can adjust my words so they fit your perspective.

Humble yourself, enlightened one. Create something. Don't just judge mindlessly - secretly believing you see more.

Don't say you "appreciate" my view, when you're clearly just searching for an opportunity to project your self-righteousness. It's easy to see through.

Ever heard of honesty? It's a very good story.

(Masculinity hell yeah!) 

[SOUL]

@ivankiss  I don't think in terms of enlightenment or of more or less of it. I didn't come in here quibbling about the details of the story, I was making a distinction...you know distinction, you spoke about it in your first post, I was pointing to the distinction between the story telling and liberation.

The story telling can be useful if it serves the cessation of self suffering but quite often it is a distraction from liberation and the pursuit of or disagreement about the 'absolute truth' story can be a source of self suffering. This discussion can be another example of a distraction.

Except, I won't let it be for my own experience, I didn't initially speak about the conceptual dualism in your story and it wasn't a ruse to display any self-righteousness, it's was an opportunity to speak about the experience of ....self-sufferless.

Even when I did bring up details of the story it was prompted by your assertion and it was to explain how I did understand it. Though, it's not about the story or the story telling, that's the point, the story telling of identity and attachment to the story is the source of self suffering.

I do 'create'...a being in liberation every moment. From that being in liberation every expression I 'create' is empowered with transcendent peace, joy and fulfillment in every work of art, music and, yes, story. Though, I don't hold up my story as an 'absolute truth', it's just a story in my imagination.

So we could continue in the distraction of attachment to the story and telling it or we could transcend that and instead cease self suffering. If we do continue in the distraction then let's marvel at how the materialist math of 1+1=2 differs from the holistic math of 1+1=3, it's amazing, huh.

The story can also be told of the absolutes...wait...absoluteS? Yes, infinity, eternity and nonentity and they are in unity, the transcendent absolute. So consciousness is really the baby of a threesome.....I bet you didn't know existence was so kinky, hah

We sure do love our stories...haha

But yea....I find the cessation of self suffering a more worthwhile endeavor than story telling but that's just my story.

Edited March 11, 2020 by SOUL

[VeganAwake]

Self suffering, that's interesting to think about...

What does it actually mean to suffer( is it not just identification with undesired thoughts )

And if suffering is just identification with undesired thoughts, what is it that's identifying with them?

Can you find it and tell it to stop identifying with these thoughts?

 

 

 

[ivankiss]

@SOUL Whether something is useful or not is up to each and every one of us to decide for ourselves, wouldn't you say?  Relative matter. If you don't find my posts to be useful - cool. I don't expect my views to be relevant to all. In fact, I don't expect anything, at all. Just enjoy sharing stuff I became conscious of - as I already said many times before.

I am also always open to further expand my views. But if the invitation to do so is not coming from a clear and honest "place" - I loose interest instantly. I'd rather keep doing my own shit and whistle on what you think about it.

That being said; I don't even disagree with what you're saying. It's just that we're coming at it all from different angles. And we prefer different ways of describing things. Which is how, in my opinion, life just is.

Where you see a story I see pointers to the actuality of what is. It is important to recognize which octave are things being expressed from. Words can be deceiving. The same thing can be said from different levels of existence and it is oh so easy to overlook the core frequency behind the symbols that are - at the end of the day - empty of all meaning.

I fought stories myself. I fought illusion. I fought the self. I fought both nothing and everything. And then I got tired of it all. 

Now I just do what I find joy in. And that's a new octave. A new baseline that emerged straight out of death. There is no suffering caused by the "stories" I tell. Or the ones I live - for that matter.

1 + 1 = 3 may be actuality for you and me. But tell that to your neighbor. He'd think you're in Lalaland. He'd think you're lost in airy fairy tales. On the other hand; someone who has no "knowledge" on nonduality might just embody far more light and love than someone who's lost in conceptual chaos. He/she might be far more conscious, present and whole... Not knowing a single thing about any of the stuff we keep chewing here.

(honestly) appreciate this though. Needed it today.

Thanks.

Edited March 12, 2020 by ivankiss

[SOUL]

 

@ivankiss You have put to me about 'honesty' a couple times in our exchange so far but I'd like to point out something that requires your honesty.

I clearly explained what I consider useful about stories in relation to self suffering and yet you ignored it to try to make an empty point about we all get to decide what is useful. Gosh, I never thought of that. You might have used that as an opportunity to explain what you find useful but, no, just say an obvious thing about subjectivity. Hmmmm, honesty, huh?

Then I comment about two different types of math, the materialist one where the 'sum' is the number of individuals and another one, what I called the holistic one where the 'sum' also includes the individuals as a whole in it. Obviously, the latter is more metaphysical where it has subjectivity in it and is not an objectivity in physics like the former.

Then you attempt to chide me with it about what would a neighbor think of me? Should I ask you what a neighbor would think about your story you have been sharing here? I suspect we'd both be taking up residence in lalaland lost in airy fairly tales according to the neighborhood. Hmmmm something something about honesty, right?

I'm pleased that the seeking of stories isn't a source of self suffering for you, though behaviors can be an indicator of it and there are very many who aren't as fortunate. The stories of self identity and chasing 'truths' or explanations of 'what is' often serve as a source of self suffering. Can we honestly deny that isn't a common occurrence, hm?

I can appreciate you losing interest if there isn't honesty in a discussion because I'm losing interest in this one. Honesty is also being genuine in communicating with others especially in presenting differing visions because we can learn from each other if we are open.

@VeganAwake Powerful questions.

Suffering is the instance of pain, discomfort or distress. When we are in presently occurring physical suffering it is different than when that suffering is from the self conscious. We stub our toe it hurts the toe, that's physical suffering but when we experience self conscious anguish over stubbing our toe it's self suffering.

Stub the toe and we put ice on it. Now the self conscious in the mind might chatter on with 'Clumsy fool why do I always do that AARRGGG!' How do we ice the mind? There is also the self conscious focusing on the past or the future. The toe doesn't hurt anymore a week later but the mind might still be scolding us for it.

The self conscious will create all sorts of mental and emotional pain, discomfort and distress from events in the past we currently aren't experiencing and potential future experiences that we imagine may happen. This type of self suffering is only in our imagination and yes it is rooted in attaching to the self as an identity.

There is also self suffering that the ego presents as currently happening to us but is just in the imagination. Maybe someone innocently or not says something and it triggers the self conscious to think it's being hurt by it, 'How dare they say that!' It creates mental and emotional distress but if we in awareness agree with this perception we self suffer and may behave in reaction to the imagined pain.

Since I spoke about it in this thread I will address how the self conscious will create distress from the pursuit of 'truth', meaning, knowledge, happiness, 'enlightenment' and even freedom from suffering. Essentially the self conscious perceives us as incomplete and this can be the source of self suffering. Our agreement with this perception is attaching to the identity of lacking or absence.

When we agree and attach to them even if they were only slight or minimal in effect initially the agreement attention given will create a feedback loop that intensifies and empowers them as 'real' for us and our identity to it. This is also the situation with past and future imaginings we can empower with agreement attention. Accepting is more passive but there can also be some empowering endorsement in that so be aware of this.

'Telling it to stop' in effect is also empowering that identity attachment to continue instigating in our mind sensations of thoughts, emotions and perceptions even if we are resisting or fighting them so that can be the source of self suffering. A more effective way is to remain in awareness observing them in equanimity and clarity. Be as such that there is no place for the mind's antics to stick to.

Wow.... this post is maybe the longest I ever wrote here. I'm done. hah

This reply box won't go away so........

 

 

 

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, ivankiss said:

I don't even disagree with what you're saying. It's just that we're coming at it all from different angles.

[VeganAwake]

16 minutes ago, SOUL said:

'Telling it to stop' in effect is also empowering that identity attachment to continue instigating in our mind sensations of thoughts, emotions and perceptions even if we are resisting or fighting them so that can be the source of self suffering. A more effective way is to remain in awareness observing them in equanimity and clarity. Be as such that there is no place for the mind's antics to stick to.

 

I agree...❤

That exercise is called the unfindable inquiry...

The idea is that you will never find that which is identifying with the undesirable thoughts because there isn't anything actually there, it's (Maya the illusion of the self)

PS if you can figure out how to make the Magic Bunny ? my profile pic I will pay you for your time...?

[whatthefucksgoinon]

Just curious where did you get this information id like to look further into it?

[VeganAwake]

8 minutes ago, whatthefucksgoinon said:

Just curious where did you get this information id like to look further into it?

I'm glad you asked ❤

All of his work is incredible imo...

[ivankiss]

@SOUL I admire your ability to analyze. Some serious skills when it comes to dissecting stuff under a microscope. Good for you.

Indeed, I made a few empty points and you turned them into a story that fed your fire. Hope it felt good. You're welcome. 

And if you aim to point out how what we're both saying is flying over our heads... I totally agree. We might as well be talking to a wall.

Thanks again and have a nice one. I have an epic story to write and live now.

[zeroISinfinity]

 

Trying to find.... 

(don't snap man, just @#&@it,kindergarten )

The hell with ? all of them(all you, yeah I know but still ?) 

Edited March 12, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[Raptorsin7]

@zeroISinfinity What's an advaita bear?

[zeroISinfinity]

You know advaita bears. No me, Awareness nothing matters, devoidness. No Love type of thingy. 

When Love is Everything. 

[ivankiss]

@zeroISinfinity Say hi to Belgrade for me, will ya? Miss mother Serbia 

[SOUL]

@ivankiss  It wasn't me who was weaving a story from empty points but I did expose the false narrative being woven and if there is a fire it is the straw man burning.

Good luck with that epic story you are writing and living I just hope it's more genuine than the one you were creating here with our discussion.

Peace.

Edited March 12, 2020 by SOUL

[ivankiss]

@SOUL You exposed nothing. You created what you wanted to see. And so did I.

May what you strive to burn down find peace within you, someday. Be it a story, an ego, or whatever else that seems to be in your way.

Bless ya.

Edited March 12, 2020 by ivankiss

[SOUL]

@ivankiss  When one brings light of awareness to life things that reflect that same light glow like a gem but fallacies tend to burn up under the magnifying glass of it...it seems you keep spinning tales that go up in flames in that light.

But you can keep projecting onto me if it makes you feel better, I am at peace with it.

 

[ivankiss]

@SOUL The root of our misunderstanding is that you believe in fallacies and I don't. 

Not projecting anything onto you. You are a part of the projection itself.

I'm just painting a picture, soul. And you're trying to convince me that the colours I'm using are a lie. As if I wasn't aware of the blank canvas beneath. It's hilarious.

You could've just said you don't dig the picture. Or my style. Simple as that.

[SOUL]

20 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Maybe you just lack the capacity to comprehend what's being said

 

19 hours ago, ivankiss said:

So if I got it right...You're more enlightened than I am, right?

 

19 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Humble yourself, enlightened one. Create something. Don't just judge mindlessly - secretly believing you see more.

 

19 hours ago, ivankiss said:

when you're clearly just searching for an opportunity to project your self-righteousness. It's easy to see through.

Ever heard of honesty?

 

8 hours ago, ivankiss said:

you turned them into a story that fed your fire. Hope it felt good.

Then say

8 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Not projecting anything onto you

Hm

I will continue to do introspection to see if these things you say are accurate, thank you.

[ivankiss]

@SOUL #EXPOSED 

Good luck. It's been a pleasure.