Are there things better than final awakening or enlightenment?

[Llight]

I think it's a accepted fact that even enlightened people get controlled by emotions and this raises the question does anyone take the challenge to conquer those emotions in biblical level? Has anyone ever done this i mean documented people? I personally would value such a person way above any enlightened person(i do appreciate those a lot as well) because that would truly be something divine and it would instantly convince any person of their high status in just a few moments in contact with such an individual, and when you think about it individuals like jesus, buddha(who actually begged for food) had such extreme supernatural kindness and even muhammed is said to have such qualities.

It would not take any logic or explaining to convince people because emotions are just that universal. It's kind of a let down that currently no such strong person takes this challenge seriously, it's like they can't even imagine the concept in their head or dismiss it as weakness but if it was such then it would be easy to do, or worse get demoralized by modern christians who fail spectacularly at doing this. I think unless you have mastered such universal raw power you shouldn't even consider going public with your approach in any way as to help others, because it is tested again and again, words have no power without emotions behind them especially for such topics. Take for example epic people who mastered this, krishna dancing on snakes, jesus walking on water, similar conclusions of muhammad and buddha. It's only due to this mastery that their religions went so universal and survived so far, and it's the lack of such power that makes all other attempts look like a complete failure to them no matter how you look at it.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Llight
edit:typo

[SoonHei]

@Llight on a relative plane... there's no end to how good things can get. it's a spiral. never ending. infinite. infinite goodness awaits you once you are totally enlightened.

[Nahm]

8 hours ago, Llight said:

I think it's a accepted fact

Contemplate what that is. 

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that even enlightened people get controlled by emotions

Scrutinize for subject-object false thinking. Such as, a first thing (person) could be controlled by a second thing (emotions). Such is the pointer, “nonduality”. Notice emotions are not separate. Control is a thought, an idea / belief. So is “enlightened people” btw. 

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and this raises the question does anyone take the challenge to conquer those emotions in biblical level?

That emotions are something or could be something to “conquer” is a false perspective, and “makes an enemy” of emotion in belief, leaving a constant “goin against the grain”. 

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Has anyone ever done this i mean documented people? I personally would value such a person way above any enlightened person(i do appreciate those a lot as well) because that would truly be something divine and it would instantly convince any person of their high status in just a few moments in contact with such an individual, and when you think about it individuals like jesus, buddha(who actually begged for food) had such extreme supernatural kindness and even muhammed is said to have such qualities.

Let go of this notion of “enlightened people”. That is not a real thing, at all. It’s more or less, working against you, because you hold a yet inspected indirect belief that you are not. You are putting people above yourself, putting them on a pedestal so to speak, subtly demeaning yourself. This is a form of ruminating. Instead, inspect your own beliefs.  

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It would not take any logic or explaining to convince people because emotions are just that universal.

No, they are not. You have never experienced that anyone else is experiencing emotion. I’m not saying it is not a reasonable, logical deduction. I am pointing you to inspect your own direct experience. This reveals an entirely different actuality, from your existing beliefs. 

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It's kind of a let down that currently no such strong person takes this challenge seriously, it's like they can't even imagine the concept in their head or dismiss it as weakness but if it was such then it would be easy to do, or worse get demoralized by modern christians who fail spectacularly at doing this. I think unless you have mastered such universal raw power you shouldn't even consider going public with your approach in any way as to help others, because it is tested again and again, words have no power without emotions behind them especially for such topics. Take for example epic people who mastered this, krishna dancing on snakes, jesus walking on water, similar conclusions of muhammad and buddha. It's only due to this mastery that their religions went so universal and survived so far, and it's the lack of such power that makes all other attempts look like a complete failure to them no matter how you look at it.

You could believe the story of Peter Pan and Dumbo too, and that would also be an idea in your head. But where would that get you in self realization? Look to direct experience, rather than believing stories (your own thoughts). ♥️

[Llight]

@Nahm Your entire response is based on your personal experience, which means you are writing what the feeling you most value commands you to do. I am doing the same. You are a slave to that feeling and it is very sensitive to what you write and when you oppose it and it won't allow you to do that and it will blackmail you with removing any security ti provides you from other feelings and sensations including the reality. Speaking of which you call it what the feeling wants you to call it. It wants the view of reality that you have right now otherwise you would be left alone unprotected to the other feelings you have tried to escape. If you want to serve that good luck, but it costs a lot.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Llight
typo

[Nahm]

@Llight You’re creating what you’re calling feeling, security, as well as emotion. It’s not separate, making it possible to “command you”. It may seem like it. There simply is no ‘final awakening’ or ‘enlightenment’. Nonetheless, I deduce my comment was unwelcomed, no worries, I wish you well on your path. 

[Llight]

@Nahm If there was nothing to run away from you would not mind abandoning your commanding feeling and choosing any paradigm you like, like the one most people have, but of course you can't do that for whatever reasons you might have in life, and so you have chosen to serve the feeling that gives you freedom from those "mistakes or unwanted feelings" but it has requirements which you can't show in public only in your mind and in this forum. Everybody who is human has such a master feeling they serve but some are way better than others. Still all is well as long as you have that costly protection and you can calm yourself with that fact for now, but what of the day where no intercession can be made and you're totally alone? Wouldn't it be better to start your right doing now, you certainly will think so when that time comes. You didn't deduce anything without your master considering it first as it seems your case is, and you went full obey mode with your comment from the start, not that i matters.

[Nahm]

@Llight Your perspective seems to be from a secondary to emotion place, as if there were emotions and then consciousness.  Whatever feeling you believe is commanding you, I can assure you that is not the case. 

[Llight]

@Nahm Feelings are above consciousness WAY above. You can only do what it commands you to do and only then you are free, it won't take petty sacrifices like consciousness and every living humans knows this including you.

[WelcometoReality]

18 hours ago, Llight said:

I think it's a accepted fact that even enlightened people get controlled by emotions and this raises the question does anyone take the challenge to conquer those emotions in biblical level?

Enlightened people still have emotions but there is no longer a desire to control them. The energy to control is no longer there and whatever arises spontaneously is part of the authentic self and is fine.

Control is an activity of the mind. We are formed from our parents and society that some emotions are bad and that we should surpress them, control them. Be the person that they want us to be. So that is what we do, surpress, control to fit into their belief of who we should be until it becomes internalized in us.

[Leo Gura]

@Llight Your desire to control and dominate emotions and experience miracles is precisely ego-mind.

You have no clue what awakening means yet and how astonishing it is. If you got a taste of it, you'd throw everything else in the trash.

[Llight]

@Leo Gura If you can't control them than they will and actually are controlling you. If there is just one emotion that you can't control in a certain situation then it means you are under its and many other emotions influence. Whatever you consider awakening it seems that falls under their kingdom and you're a slave as a result. And if you get influenced by emotions than you are also influenced by what emotions are influenced and that includes for most humans the physical reality or however you emotions permit you to see it. If you brother were to die or in pain or any other family member for that matter it would dominate you even in what you consider the highest state of awakening. You can call it ego-mind or whatever labels are permitted to you but, your source of actions and thoughts is always determined by feelings. It's precisely feelings and many other "demons" unleashed that don't permit you to see reality as the physical world or to stop taking psychedelics, the feeling you are serving now with your attention and actions protects you from them and it instructs you how to see the world and threatens with the "demons" if you abandon it. A similar feeling made you take unjustly from concepts like logic so that it could fit and actually exist, and you did that but at what cost? It goes on and on, but as you already know the key evidence of slaves to emotions is that they can always act linear and predictable, you don't dare to live in a physical world view because you can't handle the demons with such fair war and so you take protection from delusion. You are not living and viewing reality its your master doing it through you.

[Leo Gura]

@Llight There is no you and there is no control.

[Llight]

@Leo Gura It doesn't matter if I exist or not, what is known for sure is that feelings exist and they don't care what you are they care for themselves and have strict rules they want you to follow and you will follow unless you are above them. You can't convince them with this stuff, you must know yourself already from your own extensive experience, they don't buy it unless they decide and give you permission. Oh you think they are gentle little fair things that if you ignore they will leave you alone? If the devil/ego had an army feelings would be its highest generals his ultimate weapons.

[remember]

@Llight when the enslavement of the impulse for dominance vanishes you enter the realm of desire for dominance and control of dominance. the fear of dominance from impuls makes you fear emotions and following that feeling of fear you try to controll everything from above - until everything is structured the way you want it to be, there is no impuls anymore nor is there freedom to think as the cage you build does not have a door - a dream can’t fly from where you describe you are.

[Llight]

@remember Nobody is fearing emotions, i am stating the fact that they are above anything and you will do as they command, if you are fine with that great, it's called the human condition. If you want to go beyond or know anyone who attempting let me know, now that is radical and inspiring something that everyone would notice and respect with ease.

[Leo Gura]

@Llight You speak of things you do not understand.

[Llight]

@Leo Gura I bet the feelings you are serving do. Keep your gods then.

[remember]

@Llight there is nothing beyond emotions - you are failing to see that. your wish to controll emotions makes you overlook that you can’t even define what you are.

there is a reason why it’s not good to get stuck in a constant loop between impuls and will to dominate.

Edited February 7, 2020 by remember

[Llight]

@remember Why are you going around and around and around, you can have perfect consciousness and know every little detail about the sun, but you have no authority over it whatsoever. Emotions don't depend on you or whether you are one or none, you depend on them and you are forced to do what they say unless you can confront them head on. If you were above emotions you would have no single problem living under any worldview physical or imagination. 

[Preetom]

There is no 'thing' left 'after' enlightenment. 

All things are there as long as delusion is there, aka 'before' enlightenment