SaWaSaurus

What's the deal with the moralization of sexuality?

65 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

These are all just ideas. Theorisation, I never said I was imagining this. I could be anything and anyone, sounds like something you've just learned from Leo and are projecting onto me.

Philosophy is just biology, I've learned that now. We can't create philosophies that are out of alignment with biology, unless we change biology of which some people do (i.e. transexuals) and some people are trying to do (from genetic engineering to the NeuraLink).

You will never be able to think about "the best sexuality of the world", this is the trap of the ego and biology, and its what Leo ("devil this and devil that!") does as I will discuss. When you start thinking this way you don't appropriately tend to the biases of your own reference frame. Even if you get a bunch of smart humans together in the same room, its still just a reflection of the collective theoretical ego they created in that room which was created out of their biological preferences reaching for lack of a better word, equilibrium.

I would do what Goggins suggests, go into your mind. Become a practitioner of yourself by examining everything about you and what occurs inside of you then from that bring fourth your philosophy and see how that gels with the rest of the world then learn from that feedback. But it won't be the best, it'll just be a reflection of your actualisation relative to your biology. So I would just act in alignment with your biology in a practical way. The moment you try to act out of alignment, like practicing something that isn't you, you're inevitably going to fall into suffering. Actualisation begins and ends with examining of oneself because knowledge therein is the only way we can be truly actualising (because its alignment with what your own consciousness produced and relates with - learn from others yes, otherwise I wouldn't be suggesting Goggins or learning from Leo, but we have to re-align to the "true self" for lack of a better term) as opposed to just following the whim of someone else's theories.

This is the inherent dilemma of conscious politics that I'm not sure @Leo Gura completely comprehends.

I'm working daily now on trying to follow Goggins' example by being a practitioner not a theoriser because I see now what's done to Leo.

Theorisation is what inevitably creates the ego and is one of the battles I think Leo unknowingly has, he loses available reference frames that would otherwise enable him to better contextualise his experiences, including social ones. I subconsciously feel he uses a sense of superiority (defense 1) clothed in spirituality (defense 2) as a coupled defense mechanism, this inevitably leads to arrogance and arrogance is synonymous to delusion. This reasoning is in line with many of his statements, along the lines of, "I am the most conscious human that has ever existed". His behaviour doesn't reflect that in that his capacity to frame experiences is low enough that it produces such statements, of which, is a form of delusions of grandeur. I hope he will evolve beyond this one day otherwise he'll inevitably grow that ego and become what he's publicly stated he doesn't want to be, the unreality that follows with the producing a cult leader. A cult leader is born because they create an unreality that they convince others to be reality because they do not have a strong sense of their own reality, this definition within the consciousness that leads to becoming a cult leader is born out of the perceived unreality in others (which relates to my thoughts mentioned before about the relationship I've perceived he has with his beliefs and viewers - so far that's just a pattern is all - not attached to this - I could be wrong and I hope the future will reveal a different picture). So a cult leader becomes the leader of an unreality masked as reality, that's the irony in it. All of leadership is born out of the relationship and or unrelationship that people have with reality.

I think Leo would be very wise to follow what Goggins does, evolve into a better practitioner and less a theoriser. He obviously sees a very good opportunity to provide something to others in the form of his experiences relating to psychedelic use, a niche in the personal development field which he probably sees will give him an edge and uniquely define him in the area of actualisation. THIS is where I think his activities would be of best use if he chooses this path, become the best practitioner he can in this area and speak from the wisdom of his experiences here as opposed to theories.

The difference between a theoriser and a practitioner is that the theories of the practitioner are grounded in what they actually practice and have experienced. The less of a practitioner someone is and the more of a theoriser they are the more likely they're going to fall for delusional traps created by their own mind.

 

Edited by possibilities

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Posted (edited)

@vander87 what a refreshing post. 

I do think there is something in wanting to be your 'best sexuality' and the survival of the self in that. As this has connotations with division and competition, perhaps it could be more about your most 'authentic sexuality' and  surviving by that, whatever that it. You then burst the bubble of cultural norms as you are living your most authentic self and if you are an enlightened being than that will pave the way for others. 

@possibilitiesit is very healthy to follow more than one teacher, I think the more the better as it dispels the myth of cult leadership and you are able to detatch more from what is being said rather than just following blindly. I think this rings true with the morality of sexuality, people are following blindly what they think is the norm instead of searching for their authentic self/sexuality. If you don't struggle with this you won't take a second thought to this. Many people have taken their own lives in the past because of this issue so again, it does come back to the survival of the best self. 

Edited by Surfingthewave

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Posted (edited)

Exactly.

Following one teacher is what creates a "cult leader" or any perceived leader for that matter.

On one side you've got consciousness A which perceives themselves or at least pretends to have all the answers because they're not able to properly contextualise their understandings in the context of their potential ignorance.

And then on the other side you have at least one to a group of consciousnesses that perceive themselves as not to have answers and are convinced that this "teacher" has all the answers because they're not able to properly contextualise their representation of this "leader" in the context of their potential ignorance of available alternatives.

Thus the inability to properly contextualise information between both parties combined with the narcissism of one and codependence of the other makes those consciousnesses a good match, they're a representation of a balanced equation so to speak.

The narcissist is able to get away with easily distorting the truth because the follower is insecure about their capacity to discern truth.

Perspective thus, not perceived perspective (which can often just be delusion), actual informational perspective is what makes a consciousness essentially cult-proof because they're not expressing traits of codependency, inferiority and inability to contextualise and reflect on experience.

So in a way, followers are often just as bad as the "leaders" because they create them out of their own over dependence and the leader creates the followers over their neurotic need to control reality, having many followers fuels the perception of control (at least this is one hypothesis).

For me, as best as I am able to, everything is simultaneously a student and teacher in reality and from the perspective of a human, this describes the self actualisation journey, we merely differ in our achievements here.

"Many people have taken their own lives in the past because of this issue so again, it does come back to the survival of the best self. "

I honestly don't talk about this subject very well from the multiplicity of perspectives and impacts this has on people because I sit very comfortably in my own position. I can speak about it logically, but there's a whole bandwidth of suffering I'm missing out on because of this comfort I have. You're right, its a really big identity issue for people and its something that if one feels they need to address they ought to do it to the ends of the earth until its resolved within them.

Peace

Edited by possibilities

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Yes, one of the main reasons why the Antelope citizens criticized so heavily Osho's community is becasue they were a hardcase conservative dogmatic christians that viewed free sexuality as the devil.

Im not surpised that ultra right movement wins in most USA isolated areas it seems they live 60 years in the past.

On the other side of the spectrum we can find teh banalization of sex when people succumb to compulsiveness, porn, overmasturbation, which is a wasting of sacred energy.

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On ‎20‎-‎7‎-‎2019 at 4:52 AM, possibilities said:

These are all just ideas. Theorisation, I never said I was imagining this. I could be anything and anyone, sounds like something you've just learned from Leo and are projecting onto me.

 

This time... I had to be more specific. With 'we're all imagining this', I skipped to fast to this 'reality'. I think, for the discussion about morality and sexuality, we should talk about the world how we experience it now. Not from the point of view that everything is an illusion.

Next to that, I don't see all the videos and views of Leo are absolute truth. From other sources, there are similarities (like in the vedas or other spiritual texts, spiritual enlightened people, trip-reports, etc), and it could be true, but I don't think I can ever be sure. Using psychedelics with DMT-like-effects, it is still a representation of a dream. And although I have never used it, I have dreamed a lot (also lucid when I was a few years younger, I'm trying to get there again) and I have experienced lots of real vivid dreams where everything was possible and felt real. I even died a couple of times in my dreams, which was quite a revelation that I should not worry all to much about it. The fact that I can experience dreams as real as in real life, gives me a certain scepticism towards the things that are stated as 'facts' with the reason 'because I have experienced it with a trip'. But, I've never used DMT, so I don't say I know the truth or whatever.

The point you make about you should practice (I understand the way you describe practice is about looking inwards, not actual practical actions towards others, correct me if I'm wrong) and look inside to find answers -> I agree with you to a certain point. Yes you should practice (meditation on consciousness about feeling/experiences when there are no thoughts, vipasana, using psychedelics, etc) but someone who always practices (next to being trapped in their own delusions) also has no output. And then I see output as in sharing love, helping other people and try to help the human kind in general to a 'next-level-society' -> with more love towards each other, to earth and more consciousness (this is not absolute, it's more to give a direction of what can be done for a 'better' society).

With 'the best morality' I did not mean 'everyone should adopt my moral believes about sexuality'. Everyone has their own preferences, and as  @Surfingthewave described, it should be more about 'authentic sexuality'. But before anyone knows about their 'authentic sexuality', shouldn't people be more consciousness about sexuality in general? And sexuality as survival strategies (on different levels), what the options are, what feels best for each individual and how to communicate about their preferences?

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