Matt8800

Why Some Seekers Reject Psychedelics

92 posts in this topic

13 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

My suggestion is simply to seek truth, regardless of egoic reaction.

If you want to do psychedelics, do them. If not, dont. That is my point.

Frankly, I have no use for other people's opinions that is not based in direct experience.

I agree, but isn't it so ironic that we take psychedelics to experience things that aren't real so that we can learn that reality is an illusion of our own creation but then we come back from those experiences and tell other people that if they haven't had those experiences through direct experience that they don't know what we know? Or rather don't know? Is this not a great example of mental masturbation or the snake eating it's own tail? 

Couldn't I say the same thing to you psychedelic users about my own natural awakening? I mean that would be pretty fucking brutal and exclusive if I chose to do that, you can't go back in time and not take them, where as I can do psychedelics any time I want and join your club. Let's just not have clubs. My experience and your experience is an illusion, a memory, we are shared consciousness and nothing more. Let's forget the differences, methods and past and see our similarities. 

9 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

My growth and I am the one measuring and attaining that growth. If anyone has contrary opinions, I expect them to back it up if Im going to take it seriously.

Asking for a quantifiable example of growth is like asking someone to explain a psychedelic experience. Only direct experience matters ultimately. 

Growth is ultimately an illusion. It's an illusion that requires things and other people around you to be standing still in order to see. You can appreciate your growth and at the same time see its illusory nature. 

 

Edited by mandyjw

My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost

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Careful not to say that psychedelics is necessary and that non-user are stupid/ignorant or unconscious.

That's the same thing in reverse that you would do than people who demonize psychedelics ...


God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

I agree, but isn't it so ironic that we take psychedelics to experience things that aren't real so that we can learn that reality is an illusion of our own creation but then we come back from those experiences and tell other people that if they haven't had those experiences through direct experience that they don't know what we know?

 

 

 

To say a direct experience isnt real is a misunderstanding of what direct experience, and what reality, is.

Direct experience is the only thing that is real.

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@Matt8800 Huh, I thought the point of psychedelics and mystical experiences were to dissolve the duality between real and unreal. I'm not sure what the purpose is then, what is it? 


My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost

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9 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

Life purpose and growth assessment is purely subjective, as it should be. Thats why I find it interesting that inexperienced people make assumptions about the value, or lack thereof, that others experience of psychedelics.

If anyone (including people like Sadhguru) contradict my direct experience, I always choose direct experience to find truth.

Ok...

I was trying to say: how are you going to communicate your direct experience? Definitely not by going around telling anyone. That's why for most ppl, it goes in one ear and out the other.

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1 minute ago, Shin said:

Careful not to say that psychedelics is necessary and that non-user are stupid/ignorant or unconscious.

That's the same thing in reverse that you would do than people who demonize psychedelics ...

yes, agreed.

Some people's path does not include psychedelics. The main point is that SOME people's path does include psychedelics and they get massive benefit from it. Demonizing something from ignorance could confuse people that might get something of great value from it.

I mentor several people on their spiritual path. One of them is afraid of psychedelics and is not as aggressive on his path as I am. It is my job as his mentor to direct him in the way HE should go. I dont push the issue with him because I dont think it is his path.

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1 minute ago, Matt8800 said:

One of them is afraid of psychedelics and is not as aggressive on his path as I am. It is my job as his mentor to direct him in the way HE should go. I dont push the issue with him because I dont think it is his path.

That doesn't make sense.

If it's not his path, or at least right now, why thinking he should go this way ?

Or maybe I misread I don't know.

Edited by Shin

God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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1 minute ago, Key Elements said:

Ok...

I was trying to say: how are you going to communicate your direct experience? Definitely not by going around telling anyone. That's why for most ppl, it goes in one ear and out the other.

I dont need to communicate my direct experience because nobody else is responsible for my growth. Besides, it is ineffable. 

The main point is that if you dont want to do psychedelics, dont do them but it is delusional based in ego to assume nobody gets real benefit from them.

 

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9 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

 

The main point is that if you dont want to do psychedelics, dont do them but it is delusional based in ego to assume nobody gets real benefit from them.

 

This is also an assumption. It's more complicated than this. Ppl are not thinking this--too simple. Human beings are more complicated than this.

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@Matt8800 It’s important to empathise with people of the kind and not seek to denounce, patronise or belittle those who do not resonate with your views on this matter. Begin discussions of friendly nature to build a rapport of understanding.

We are in a heavily materialist saturated time. Thus, psychedelics undermine the very fabric of ones materialistic foundations. This I empathise with as most people are conditioned into this paradigm of thinking. You can’t expect one to exercise beyond their state of consciousness.

 Personally, I have been researching them for the past 3 years and have come to the conclusion that there are too many profound benefits to neglect them. I will be trying them soon. 

However, this does not licence me to masquerade in their benefits and deprecate others who are not for them. This only perpetuates their intolerance and resistance to them. Besides they are not for everyone. To truly bring educational insight to those without experience healthy discussion must be made. Not dehumanising mentality of individuals against one another.

Psychonauts i see do this way too often. It’s like a transmutation of political warfare from the left wing and right wing. Those who use them should lead by example as they claim to becoming more conscious. Important to bring healthy discussion about this topic.

 

Edited by Jacobsrw

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2 minutes ago, Shin said:

That doesn't make sense.

If it's not his path, or at least right now, why thinking he should go this way ?

Or maybe I misread I don't know.

No, I am saying that I dont think his path includes psychedelics so I dont necessarily recommend them. Its different for everyone, which is my main point.

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35 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

This is also an assumption. It's more complicated than this. Ppl are not thinking this--too simple. Human beings are more complicated than this.

No, I disagree. If someone says that I did not get real value from psychedelics, that would be an assumption based in delusion. It simply is not true.

I dont assume I received value from psychedelics, I know from direct experience.

Edited by Matt8800

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8 minutes ago, Jacobsrw said:

@Matt8800 It’s important to empathise with people of the kind and not seek to denounce, patronise or belittle those who do not resonate with your views on this matter. Begin discussions of friendly nature to build a rapport of understanding.

 

 

I am not patronizing or belittling anyone but I do rightly denounce any statement that says that psychedelics are of no spiritual value to anyone. There is nothing unspiritual about denouncing delusion.

If someone wants to say that they choose not to use psychedelics personally regardless of the value to others, I see no delusion with that but that is a different statement.

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10 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

No, I disagree. If someone says that I did not get real value from psychedelics, that would be an assumption based in delusion. It simply is not true.

You really don't know what the other person is thinking. You don't know the exact details. This other person might not be telling you because you're labeling him/her as "delusional" or "anti-psychedelic." No one wants to be labeled. It's too hasty of a conclusion, too simple. I rather be a good listener and listen to all the pros and cons.

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@Matt8800 You’re hyperbolising your opinion and not empathising with others. I’m purely suggesting that you discuss with people these things. Denouncing this or that whether you vehemently believe it to be true or not is like digging a hole.

People will only listen to what you have to say once you have communicated beyond the projection of opinion. 

 

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1 minute ago, Key Elements said:

You really don't know what the other person is thinking. You don't know the exact details. This other person might not be telling you because you're labeling him/her as "delusional" or "anti-psychedelic." No one wants to be labeled. It's too hasty of a conclusion, too simple. I rather be a good listener and listen to all the pros and cons.

I can only know what they are thinking if they state what they are thinking.

If someone makes the statement that nobody gets spiritual value from psychedelics, that statement is delusional. Its not about labeling, its just a fact. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Jacobsrw said:

@Matt8800 You’re hyperbolising your opinion and not empathising with others. I’m purely suggesting that you discuss with people these things. Denouncing this or that whether you vehemently believe it to be true or not is like digging a hole.

People will only listen to what you have to say once you have communicated beyond the projection of opinion. 

 

I dont need anyone to listen to me. Im not projecting an opinion because it is not an opinion. I am communicating truth from direct experience. To say I am wrong you would need to say that people do not get value from psychedelics. 

I am simply stating that the assertion that psychedelics has no value to anyone at any time is a delusion. That is a fact regardless of anyone's feelings. Whoever understands was meant to understand. If someone doesnt understand, it wasnt meant to be and that is OK with me.

I speak truth without reservation. That style isnt for everyone but it is for some. Let the chips fall where they may.

Edited by Matt8800

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@Matt8800 Okay, that’s completely fair enough, I understand that. However, if you value progressive discussion and wish for psychedelics to develop better educationally, I recommend reframing the way in which you convey your discussions on this topic.

If not and their development is of no value to you in society then I wish you all the best on this journey ?

Edited by Jacobsrw

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14 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

I can only know what they are thinking if they state what they are thinking.

If someone makes the statement that nobody gets spiritual value from psychedelics, that statement is delusional. Its not about labeling, its just a fact. 

 

 

Maybe some ppl think like that. Then, there are ppl who think like that and after some time change their opinions. Looks like someone planted the right seeds, or they discovered the right seeds.

For instance, I'm not going to go around calling stage blue ppl "losers." Ppl do come out of it.

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26 minutes ago, Jacobsrw said:

@Matt8800 Okay, that’s completely fair enough, I understand that. However, if you value progressive discussion and wish for psychedelics to develop better educationally, I recommend reframing the way in which you convey your discussions on this topic.

If not and their development is of no value to you in society then I wish you all the best on this journey ?

i appreciate your stance. Everyone has a different role to play in Shivas dance.

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