Is 5 meo dmt really a magic pill to enlightenment?

[whoareyou]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@whoareyou when you die and become God that is enlightenment.  You as the ego are reborn and at a different level of consciousness.  The old consciousness died.  There is something new now.  That is still enlightenment.  The more this happens the deeper your enlightenment will get until you get to the highest levels of consciousness and realization.   A feeling of liberation.  But it is all One.

That is not enlightenment! You are falling into a trap, mistaking an enlightenment experience for enlightenment itself. A lot of people do this during psychedelic experiences. Martin W Ball writes describes this in-depth in his books.

LEO really needs to clarify the terminology that he uses, as I can see this confuses a lot of people.

[Inliytened1]

@whoareyou this is independent of pyschedelics.  My awakenings were without.  And i don't think you are grasping this.   You are not experiencing anything.  You are dead.  It is God awakening to himself.  Can you make this distinction?  You are no longer in the realm of the relative..instead you are in the realm of the Absolute.

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

If you want to say one is "enlightened" only after having ALL realizations that's fine.  When we use the term enlightenent we are in the relative.  I'm just stating that these are not experiences of the ego.  There is a distinct difference.

[whoareyou]

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@whoareyou this is independent of pyschedelics.  My awakenings were without.  And i don't think you are grasping this.   You are not experiencing anything.  You are dead.  It is God awakening to himself.  Can you make this distinction?  You are no longer in the realm of the relative..instead you are in the realm of the Absolute.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

If you want to say one is "enlightened" only after having ALL realizations that's fine.  When we use the term enlightenent we are in the relative.  I'm just stating that these are not experiences of the ego.  There is a distinct difference.

You are not grasping what I am saying because you are too focused on the semantics and "absolute" vs "relative".

Regardless if you used psychedelics or not, those were what is referred to as "enlightenment experiences", instead of actual "enlightenment". I did not make this up. 

By "enlightenment", I am referring to a permanent change/shift, after ALL of those "realizations". You can also call this "liberation".

If you use a different set of definitions to describe these things, you will confuse and mislead a lot of people.

Watch this, this is what I am referring to:

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by whoareyou

[Inliytened1]

@whoareyou yes..i agree with him.  But notice that which he stated his students say happen to them..those are glimpses.  When realizations are revealed to you that is a different level above glimpses.  So we can split hairs here.   When realizations have been revealed - not glimpses - that is still enlightenment.  That enlightenment can be deepened.    But we can split hairs in the relative all we want. 

[Inliytened1]

Also with glimpses the ego does not fully surrender.

[whoareyou]

@Inliytened1 You did not watch the video carefully enough, that is not what he said.

Those things that you call "realizations" are "enlightenment experiences", and not "enlightenment". 

What I am trying to say, is that enlightenment is something that is permanent, not temporary. Those "enlightenment experiences" are very valuable though, and before you have the actual "enlightenment", you will probably have a LOT of those realizations. 

 

[Inliytened1]

@whoareyou if you take that approach you are limiting yourself to reaching some sort of permanent enlightenment and then no longer growing.  

You can always deepen your enlightenment.  That quest never ends.  You can have full non-dual awareness as well as dual awareness, yes, as well as the highest realizations.  But that doesn't mean you can't deepen it further still.  You seem to be underestimating God here

Your Infinite.

[whoareyou]

32 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@whoareyou if you take that approach you are limiting yourself to reaching some sort of permanent enlightenment and then no longer growing.  

You can always deepen your enlightenment.  That quest never ends.  You can have full non-dual awareness as well as dual awareness, yes, as well as the highest realizations.  But that doesn't mean you can't deepen it further still.  You seem to be underestimating God here

Your Infinite.

English must be your second language, or your reading comprehension skills are very low.

I have never said that there is no more growing, or those realizations have no value.

You are confusing "enlightenment experience" for "enlightenment" itself, which is the reason why you use the word "enlightenment" the way you do.

I will not waste anymore time or effort trying to explain this to you, it's like hitting my head against the wall. 

[Inliytened1]

@whoareyou no...you are not realizing this is all dualistic and relative.  You will never be able to pinpoint permanent enlightenent.  Just like one can't pinpoint or measure an electron in quantum mechanics.  

You are in the relative.  There are only one's interpretations or perspectives of enlightenment.  That's all there is in the dualistic world.  

When you experience the Absolute for yourself, which you have not, then you will be conscious of what Absolutes are.  Enlightenment vs non-enlightenment is a duality.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Inliytened1

[whoareyou]

49 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@whoareyou no...you are not realizing this is all dualistic and relative.  You will never be able to pinpoint permanent enlightenent.  Just like one can't pinpoint or measure an electron in quantum mechanics.  

You are in the relative.  There are only one's interpretations or perspectives of enlightenment.  That's all there is in the dualistic world.  

When you experience the Absolute for yourself, which you have not, then you will be conscious of what Absolutes are.  Enlightenment vs non-enlightenment is a duality.

No, I do understand what you are saying, but all you are doing, is getting stuck in the concepts.

You are theorizing too much.

Whenever you talk about "enlightenment", it will always be dualistic.

I have experienced everything that you describe, but I don't confuse "enlightenment experiences" for "enlightenment" itself.

[Inliytened1]

@whoareyou isn't that your perspective?   

If you say its absolute truth you are trapping yourself because that's an illusion. That's what was trying to get you to see.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

Truth is prior to proof

 

[whoareyou]

@Inliytened1 You are putting words into my mouth. You are completely confused in the web of concepts.

We are talking about apples and oranges here, about different things.

You still did not understand the original point that I was trying to make. It was very simple - but you decided to to make it very complex.

[Enlightenment]

@Inliytened1 What @whoareyou means is that by "enlightenment" 99% of people understand a lasting shift in your everyday experience of being you, like let's say Leo have a brother and both are doing 5-MeO today, then boom original Leo somehow got enlightened but his brother did not. Tomorrow original Leo will wake up in non-dual awareness without the self in his head etc. but his brother has come back to his original experience of the self after the trip and tomorrow will wake up with his default self-feeling + memory of the enlightenment experience that he had on 5-MeO  

[Inliytened1]

@Enlightenment and yes that's just it....for me and for what i would deem is the path for most people is it is a process.  God will not reveal all realizations at once...its way too much for a mortal to handle and you will probably go insane...that's how powerful this stuff is.

So i would not diminish a particular mystical experience.  Thats all I'm saying.  If you want to say you are not fully enlightened until you have had all realizations that's fine.  

But if that's the case what are all realizations?  Before i tell you mine i would like whoareyou to answer since he is such an expert at permanent awakening ")

 

[Inliytened1]

Ill start a separate thread on those.  You can make your own decisions after that on whether you consider just one or all realizations and deep non-dual awareness are enlightenment.  But in my perspective just one of these is so powerful that you honestly won't care about the difference anymore.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Inliytened1

[tedens]

Perspective levels are not explored?

So you're both right and at the same time not.

[Inliytened1]

@tedens and i totally get what they are saying.  Im in a state of non-dual awareness now that i wasn't in before my last realization.  I can see everything and everyone as One, in my mind and me.

I didn't have that consciousness before the last one..which still took time to integrate.  And i can also be the dualistic perspective.  I can shift my consciousness between both and its wonderful.  And im still deepening the non-dual awareness because I'm still in duality more than ide like.  So there are levels.  But the part is still the whole.   

So via mystical experience for example if you have the realization that the self is an illision and that you are awareness  and then become conscious that reality is a Mind..you at the same time, will be conscious that oh shit, i am also a hollogram!

That can be extremely profound and is a part of enlightenment itself.   To say its just a mere experience i do not think does it enough justice..but that's just my perspective.

Those were some of the first early realizations i had..not just in concept but as revealed to me as the Absolute after ego collapse into Being.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

@whoareyou I don't recognize the validity of such distinctions. You are making them up. I make no distinction between a psychedelic trip and "real life".

What matters to me is realization of Truth. This realization is not a function of time.