Why didn't the 1960s counterculture movement evolve the US into Green

[EternalForest]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterculture_of_the_1960s

With an entirely new generation spreading green ideals, it was always a mystery to me why the movement didn't last, and why many of these people grew up to continue being stage orange. It's as if society was experiencing a turning point, and next step in evolution but it wasn't ready.

Edited April 27, 2019 by EternalForest

[Leo Gura]

@EternalForest It did. You just aren't appreciating how backwards it was before the 60's revolution. The entire self-help movement stems from there.

But you can't go from Blue straight to Green. You must pass through Orange, and so here we are. It's not easy to shift 300 million people. We're getting there... slowly...

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura From my understanding, in the 10th century the Middle East were some of the most advanced people, heavy stage Blue. Why are they still in Blue 1000 years later? What keeps a society from growing?

[kieranperez]

The same reason it took centuries and millennia for Orange so long to slowly emerge after a looooooooong reign of Blue. 

[EternalForest]

@Leo Gura Ok, I see what you mean. I was under the impression that the US was pretty solid orange through much of the economic boom of the 60s. But come to think of it, what the 90s are to us, the 40s were to the people of 60s. So perhaps it was less evolved than I'm perceiving it to be.

I guess moreso than the people themselves I'm just making an observation that the culture and the zeitgeist of the late 60s and early 70s felt more green than the culture/zeitgeist of today or really anytime since then. 

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura From my understanding, in the 10th century the Middle East were some of the most advanced people, heavy stage Blue. Why are they still in Blue 1000 years later? What keeps a society from growing?

Evolution seems to be accelerating. The whole universe is accelerating.

New technology makes a big difference. But it's hard to say for sure. There are many factors.

16 minutes ago, EternalForest said:

@Leo Gura Ok, I see what you mean. I was under the impression that the US was pretty solid orange through much of the economic boom of the 60s.

In the 60's the US was extremely Blue. Green was very radical in the 60's. There was a huge backlash to it. And it really only emerged in California and the most advanced cities. You have to understand that what shapes culture via the media is not representative of the average people. Many people in rural America are still very Blue. They are the Fox News audience.

Probably 70%+ of the world is at stage Blue or below. Hollywood media is not representative of that, giving a skewed picture of progress. Most people in the world are still racist, homophobic, misogynistic, and nationalist. Basically 70% of the world population is at the level of development of Nazis. Think about that.

[kieranperez]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Evolution seems to be accelerating. The whole universe is accelerating.

I think the limits of Spiral Dynamics make it seem this way as far as models go because we do tend to make finer distinctions and classifications of evolution. 

For example, if we go into the next 200 years, humanity might look back at us now and not make nor see such fine distinctions like we tend to because we tend to be more present with all the differences.

I'm sure in the industrial revolution they were saying the same thing to one extent or another as far as how they were viewing progress. 

Depends on perspective I guess is what I'm trying to say. 

[Leo Gura]

@kieranperez Technological innovation seems to be accelerating though.

[kieranperez]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@kieranperez Technological innovation seems to be accelerating though.

Sure but even with that... how long is it going to take till it actually penetrates culture? How are markets going to adapt to it? How are government regulations going to adapt to it? 

I don't deny the change that evolutions seems like it's accelerating. Hell, I hear and see it all the time here in San Francisco. I got crazy tech guys on my track club who lead software guys at Google and what not.

The question I raise as far as when the tables will really turn and the world really get's moving is when this stuff penetrates into mainstream culture. Stage Blue people in middle and southern end of the United States don't really seem to feel the magnitude of this technological revolutions because they're not really around it. 

I think, and this is just a thought, it's kinda like paradigms with knowledge. Most postmodernists for example aren't aware or conscious enough to understand that their had to be a guy like Jacques Derrida who decades earlier brought up this paradigm of poststructuralism to the masses and take decades to permeate culture and cause "mind viruses" to people in order for the postmodernist today to "embody" that paradigm unknowingly and become an effect and vehicle of a new way of evolution and seeing the world. It's taken decades for that paradigm to really infect and effect culture in the masses that it has now which is now causing this grind we see in the media now. 

I think it's the same with technology. I still think we still have some time before things get really interesting. 

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

The question I raise as far as when the tables will really turn and the world really get's moving is when this stuff penetrates into mainstream culture. Stage Blue people in middle and southern end of the United States don't really seem to feel the magnitude of this technological revolutions because they're not really around it. 

I think you underestimate its impact. Technology is always affecting culture, even in the rural South. Do they not have internet? Are they not affected by globalization? Are they not affected by Muslim migrants? Will they not be affected by driverless cars in 10 years? Are they not affected by closing factories and jobs moving to China? Are they not affected by Amazon 2-day shipping? Are they not affected by smart phones? Are they not affected by gay rights? Are they not affected by Youtube?

You can't hide technology. Once it's mainstream it's everywhere around the world within a few years.

To be clear, the effects of technology are not always positive. It's always a mixed bag. Stuff is changing very quickly now so there will be a lot of problems for people who are not quick adapters (which is most people). The faster one's environment changes the more mentally flexible and openminded one has to be to adapt to it. This is very big problem for stage Blue.

All the political shifts we're seeing lately are directly connected to technological advancement.

The 60's revolution itself was made possible by the technological developments of modern chemistry and psychedelics.

Now try to imagine what might happen if 5-MeO-DMT went mainstream.

[kieranperez]

@Leo Gura fair point. I actually want to be make it initiative to start being more present with these development with more healthy news outlets. Just to stay current as personally I do need to be prepared given that I'm in my early 20s and leaving home for the first time before the end of the year.

[kieranperez]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Now try to imagine what might happen if 5-MeO-DMT went mainstream.

The amount of my friends who are out of the loop of the nonduality work and into mainstream culture messaged from the Mike Tyson video with Rogan saying "is this what you were talking about?! I want to try it!" Was truly eyeopening and raised a lot of thoughts.

So you don't think, and for obvious reasons I think you're a good person to ask, we'd see a decline in sites like YouTube right?

My real question if it really takes off and consumes culture in an even more unhealthy way is this... how would people who really into consciousness and enlightenment work really relate to that? I imagine it's going to be either the people who retreat from it and then those who try to elevate the people who are suffering from this digital toxicity that they're drowning in... but even then... you can't really escape it at a certain point. 

[Leo Gura]

If 5-MeO went mainstream half of society would implode and there would be a massive backlash.

[mandyjw]

I live in stage blue rural America. There are some stage green people who live here to escape stage orange, it's easier for them to get along with stage blue than stage orange, especially since they know they are doing good here . Those are the people who were my best teachers and mentors growing up. But they offend most of the stage blue people. They could even learn how to transcend stage green from stage blue but they don't see the opportunity because they believe they are superior. 

You have to be a chameleon. Watch people and really know in which ways they are open. Then you'll know just the right buttons to push and how hard to push them. 

[billiesimon]

From what I can see, the 60s hippie culture, even though it was green, opened the gates for a solid orange society. 

For example: rock and roll, drugs, free sex, hedonistic lifestyle, pursuit of pleasure and success etc. 

The western world was not ready for stage green, so society moved into a more classic liberal mindset (atheism, science and social freedom). 

[Lister]

@EternalForest

Go watch a few Jordan Peterson videos, then you will see how green is well established in the West.

[TheAvatarState]

@EternalForest i believe the answer to everyone's questions here is psychedelics. There was an outburst of creativity and love in the 60s and 70s... There was a musical rennaisance, film rennaisance, basically every field burst out in all directions. It all traces back to psychedelics .. and the outlaw of said substances... Led to the fucking 80s MTV cocaine bullshit... Which led to our current unhealthy excesses of orange. It's obviously not a 1 for 1 full direct correlation, but they played the biggest part in the evolution of our culture, and  will continue to shape us into Green and beyond in the near future. 

[SaWaSaurus]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Evolution seems to be accelerating. The whole universe is accelerating.

New technology makes a big difference. But it's hard to say for sure. There are many factors.

What is it we're accelerating towards? Terrence McKenna would put it like this - evolution is a novelty conserving engine, where matter gets more and more complex over time, from simple molecules to more advanced molecules to polymers and DNA... until where we are now (human beings). Where do we go from human beings? Now with the direction of technology, are we maybe heading to the point where the line between technology and biology becomes blurred? Would love your thoughts!

[Leo Gura]

50 minutes ago, SaWaSaurus said:

Now with the direction of technology, are we maybe heading to the point where the line between technology and biology becomes blurred?

Well obviously. That's not even the future, that's already today.

Life in the real future will be so different it will be impossible to understand it for today's humans. There will be things far beyond humans or even living creatures. Stuff in totally new dimensions as yet unimaginable.

I forsee a future where beings can materialize physical objects using their will and imagination through no physical mechanism. Imagine building a jumbo jet using your mind and it appears before you. With enough intelligence that should be possible. That is how God does it.

[kieranperez]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Well obviously. That's not even the future, that's already today.

Life in the real future will be so different it will be impossible to understand it for today's humans. There will be things far beyond humans or even living creatures. Stuff in totally new dimensions as yet unimaginable.

I forsee a future where beings can materialize physical objects using their will and imagination through no physical mechanism. Imagine building a jumbo jet using your mind and it appears before you. With enough intelligence that should be possible. That is how God does it.

What time frame are you giving this? Not in our lifetime surely.