Feeling embarrassed to return :') but i want to let go and be that which i am

[Nahm]

@Aakash What could there be for Perfection to do? Perfect and perfect does not = an experience. Like blue in a blue room, can’t see blue. Our true nature is arising in all things. How could it be any other way? ..what is, is “made of” What Is. The experience, ‘now’, is enough. Where can we rush to? Only back to the perfection, but this is It! It is fun to forget who we are. It is perfect. 

The set up get’s us thinking....that’s how the punchline is funny. 

???

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

It's all about balance, harmony and working together. It's not about cowbell or no cowbell. It's about just the right amount of cowbell. 

Exactly. 

What I’ve found is that as we awaken, the cowbell guy (thinking mind) will concede some territory- it realizes awareness has expanded and it cannot continue to run the whole show and be 99% of the song. It ego can be incredibly sneaky and subtle by saying “well we are all in the band, let’s play together in harmony”. Yet it continues to try and control the narrative of the band. It wants to write the songs and have most of the solos. Yet the cowbell just isn’t that great - the guitar, drums, saxophone, piano etc, flow so much better together. The cowbell just isn’t needed. He’s like some guy in the audience thinking he has a big role in the band and won’t stop playing that darn cowbell. It becomes distracting and uncomfortable to the mind-body. Much of human discomfort and distress is related to too much cowbell. 

[Aakash]

13 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

It’s not an “all or nothing” thing for me. It’s a question of degree.

i get where your coming from, why put yourself in that situation , but how can perfectness have degrees of perfect? 

13 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Whenever i would focus on losing weight, i would obsess over food and eat too much. If I instead found that i really enjoyed going running I'd lose weight without thinking. Spiritual development is the same principal. 

this is over simplified in a way, the question would be why is it you want to lose weight when you are perfect itself, what need for the change and for things to be any other way

[Forestluv]

7 minutes ago, Aakash said:

i get where your coming from, why put yourself in that situation , but how can perfectness have degrees of perfect? 

Whatever is. . . IS. It is perfect ISness. How can something that IS not be perfect?

As well, my mind-body has no desire to shove a pencil up my nose and experience the perfection of that ISness.

There is a movement in the construct of time and that is perfect as well. Adding in meaning of imperfection and desire to get to another place is part of human nature. And that is perfect ISness as well. A mind can be aware of this underlying dynamic or unaware of this dynamic. 

[Aakash]

@Nahm @Serotoninluv  so your both essentially saying the same thing , what ever is, is perfect . 

14 minutes ago, Nahm said:

It is fun to forget who we are

LOL that is quite funny, its fun to forget who we are, so we did lol

the cosmic joke was i was complete all the time 

so really what i'm trying to get at is, you are perfect regardless of what is actually happening to you in actuality? 

your judgement, desires etc all things are also perfect too 

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv I see so change is part of the time bound construction that is perfect as well, that ability to change our decisions, to go pee before we enter a sensory deprevation tank for example, so the decision to change and come back to a forum after saying goodbye. 

a mind can be aware of it or not, 

the implications are then as followed: that every decision made is perfect then would it not

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Serotoninluv I see so change is part of the time bound construction that is perfect as well, that ability to change our decisions, to go pee before we enter a sensory deprevation tank for example, so the decision to change and come back to a forum after saying goodbye. 

a mind can be aware of it or not, 

the implications are then as followed: that every decision made is perfect then would it not

I think you are now entering the realm of “choice”. An idea that humans hold very dearly. The subjective experience of choice has a huge evolutionary advantage. With the constructs of a timeline and choice, humans can be reflective about their “choices” in the “past” and evolve to make “better choices” in the future. It’s an incredibly powerful evolutionary tool for the human species. Only humans have it. It may have practical uses for survival and evolution, yet it also causes a lot of distress and delusion in the mind-body. 

[Nahm]

@Aakash You are The Creator. You can do whatever you want. 

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv yeah okay i don't want to enter the realm of choice, but i just want to talk about perfection, 

30 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Adding in meaning of imperfection and desire to get to another place is part of human nature.

what i'm really talking about is this at its core, i couldn't get the words for it, but its this 

adding in imperfections 

to me the perfection is that there are no imperfections , so why does the notion of change "i.e, to add meaning of imperfection and desire to get to another place" be counted as perfection

[Truth Addict]

@Aakash

Embarrassed <= insecurity <= fear <= love.

You don't love yourself enough.

Elaborate?

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Serotoninluv yeah okay i don't want to enter the realm of choice, but i just want to talk about perfection, 

what i'm really talking about is this at its core, i couldn't get the words for it, but its this 

adding in imperfections 

to me the perfection is that there are no imperfections , so why does the notion of change "i.e, to add meaning of imperfection and desire to get to another place" be counted as perfection

It’s inter-related. There is a subjective “choice/judgement” that something is imperfect. 

Whatever appears simply IS. Thoughts and feelings that deny what IS also IS. They are thoughts/feelings denying what IS. That is also ISness. If I have a thought that my car is imperfect, that IS a thought that my car is imperfect. It’s not a roast beef sandwich. It IS a thought my car is imperfect.

These thoughts/feelings of imperfection fuel movements through a time construct. The thoughts/feelings that my car is imperfect will influence the mind-body within a time construct. For example, the mind-body may wash and paint the car so that it appears closer to it’s idea of perfection and provide relief for the discomfort of perceiving it as imperfect.

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv i see so ultimately that means i am perfect whether i hold beliefs about certain things or i don't hold beliefs about certain things

[Forestluv]

38 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Serotoninluv i see so ultimately that means i am perfect whether i hold beliefs about certain things or i don't hold beliefs about certain things

This is just my take of the dynamics here. . . I think you are conflating the absolute and relative.

Right now, I am staring at the back of my hand. . . It just is how it is. It is ISness. I suppose one could say it is Perfect in an absolute sense. Yet this is a different context than a relative sense. Let's now enter the relative. . . I am again staring at the back of my hand and I see various "imperfections". This was a stressful week at work and my mind-body often bites it's fingernails when under stress. I grew up being told that biting fingernails was "bad" and "ugly". I live in a culture in which many people around me tell me biting my fingernails is a "bad" habit and I should stop doing it so my fingernails look nice. As well, many people in my culture spend a lot of time, money and effort in getting pedicures, filing and painting their fingernails etc. That is the relative standard of "perfect" fingernails in my society. My mind-body has been conditioned to believe that is what perfect fingernails should look like. Yet it is relative. My mind could reject that belief or believe the opposite as being perfect. As well, I imagine there may be some tribe in a remote place in the world in which bitten fingernails is regarded as beautiful. It could be an art form. People here may spend years developing their fingernail biting technique to create perfectly chewed fingernails. I could travel to this remote culture  and they may see my bitten fingernails and exclaim "Omg!!! Look at those perfect fingernails!! You are a natural!! How many years did you practice to perfect your biting technique!!??". 

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv right i'm trying to get rid of the relative and only find the absolute, 

simulatenously i'm accepting the relative as truthful but not entirely truthful, as per the word relative 

but the absolute truth must incorporate the relative itself and therefore i am finding 

"ONEtwo" not "ONE PLUS TWO"

[Forestluv]

38 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Serotoninluv right i'm trying to get rid of the relative and only find the absolute, 

simulatenously i'm accepting the relative as truthful but not entirely truthful, as per the word relative 

but the absolute truth must incorporate the relative itself and therefore i am finding 

"ONEtwo" not "ONE PLUS TWO"

Yea. . . in terms of conceptualizing it for a mind. . . I found it helpful to first get grounded in nonduality/absolute and see distinctions between nonduality/absolute and dual/relative until I could start integrating the two. But yea, at a "deeper" level, my fingernails are simultaneously "Perfect" in an absolute sense and "perfect, imperfect and an infinite number of perfect-imperfect mixtures". When I dig deep enough, it all collapses into nothing / infinity. If you remove all distinctions, nothing / infinity remains. Yet even with distinctions, there is still nothing / infinity - yet it may appear as separate things.

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv thanks now i get it, this what i was trying to get at, that the imperfect-perfect is the result of a need for change to result in another imperfect- perfection which the body-mind holds as absolute. but this change is also perfect and therefore its fine for me to want change but also accept things as perfect, 

the ultimate absolute is nothing/ infinity as you said but i am unable to get at this yet and therefore my second best option is to take everything as perfect and imperfect-perfection therefore absolute perfection since the duality between imperfect/perfect collpases

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Serotoninluv thanks now i get it, this what i was trying to get at, that the imperfect-perfect is the result of a need for change to result in another imperfect- perfection which the body-mind holds as absolute. but this change is also perfect and therefore its fine for me to want change but also accept things as perfect, 

Good stuff. You are a natural at this. How were you able to stay aware for so long?  

One thing I would add in terms of the mind creating imperfect-perfect scenarios within the timeline and feeling a need to change (to go from an imperfect state to a perfect state) is that a "perfect" state of absolute perfection cannot be found in the timeline. It can only be found Now. Seeking to improve, create, explore, develop and grow is great stuff - that's what humans and other organisms do. Yet "home" is right now. It seems to me that a lot of human distress is wanting to get "home" to some place that is not here and now. Yet, in the truest sense - "home" is Now. Our "higher" essence comes back "home" to Now and realizes the whole storyline is not home. That's not to say that the timeline and storyline is not part of the human experience - it certainly is. Wanting to change, grow, evolve, learn, explore and discover are beautiful aspects of humanness. Yet human minds can get trapped in the timeline / storyline and forget that home is always Now. 

The journey is the destination. Yet we continue the journey. . . 

 

[Aakash]

@Serotoninluv great this brings me to another point 

absolute perfection can only exist in the now 

whether its imperfect perfection (change) or perfection itself (unchange), this perfection always needs to be accepted in the now, 

which i've learnt is basically accepting reality always in the now, for what it is and never wanting it to be anything other than what it is 

but this is where i got confused between change and unchange in relationship but its a 2nd order phenomenon because its splits into duality , that there wasn't really such thing as change in the first place because change requires a notion of time 

the absolute is that the perfection is the present moment accepted and loved always

but i couldn't understand how change related to first order phenomenon or the now. 

this is what i call self acceptance and loving yourself 

its loving the present moment and everything including yourself and holding it as perfect and nothing else 

or home, which as you've said home doesn't exist in the time line 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Aakash

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Serotoninluv 

absolute perfection can only exist in the now 

Yes. Even thoughts about perfection in some future scenario are occurring now. 

5 minutes ago, Aakash said:

whether its imperfect perfection (change) or perfection itself (unchange), this perfection always needs to be accepted in the now, 

There is no change in the now. Change requires a timeline of past, present and future.

6 minutes ago, Aakash said:

which i've learnt is basically accepting reality always in the now, for what it is and never wanting it to be anything other than what it is 

Sounds good. I would use the term "observing" or "experiencing" rather than accepting. For example, I haven't seen my gf for over a week and want to see her. I miss her. That's just what is arising. In the moment, I want to be with her. I can observe it and experience it in the moment. Then it dissolves and something else arises. 

1 hour ago, Aakash said:

but this is where i got confused between change and unchange in relationship but its a 2nd order phenomenon because its splits into duality , that there wasn't really such thing as change in the first place because change requires a notion of time 

Bingo! The notion of time is just a construct. It is a very useful construct in practical terms, yet it is a construct. Actuality is Now. In actual terms, there is no past or future - those are ideas that are occurring Now. So in actual terms, there is no past and future. Even saying "present moment" or "Now" suggests a past and future. In actuality, we don't even need to call it "present moment" or "now". There is no present moment or now - because there is no past or future to compare it to. There is what IS. 

[Key Elements]

@Aakash

Sometimes it takes trial and error to learn. Once you learn new information, the first baby step is perhaps the hardest. We're programed to follow "the herd," meaning what's familiar. But, there are also drawbacks to taking a new, unfamiliar step. It could also be a big mistake. You got to look at all sides and make the crucial decision. Do your research fully on the topic. And, don't forget to live life to the fullest. That's a must.

We all heard of this saying. From my experience, taking that new first step and where to step can be the hardest. In a spiritual journey, well, that's not so easy to explain in just one post, is it? I would recommend that a person not chase it rigidly. It can also come to you suddenly when you decide to live your life fully. The Maslow diagram is accurate. Non-duality and self-transcendence belongs at the top.