How can you trust your mind?

[SOUL]

7 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

How can I know my mind is less or more deluded than any other? There is no way to tell that.

Which do you seek? To 'know if mind is deluded' or to 'experience the cessation of self suffering'? I experience the cessation of self suffering and if that liberation is merely a delusion then so be it..... let's dance!

[SOUL]

1 minute ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

And so it's the impulses that dellude. The innocent little ego is the devil's scapegoat.

Therefore any statement beginning with: "My ego" is basically delusion.

The 'man behind the curtain'.....the man, the curtain and the 'behind' are all a delusion. Haha

[Forestluv]

45 minutes ago, SOUL said:

There is a delicate dance between what we perceive things to be and what really is. So even though we get to draw our own map of meaning, our perception of what is doesn't actually change what really is but just maps out how we perceive it. 

This seems like a dance between subjective perception / meaning of “what is” and an objective “what really is”. 

If so, what is “really is”? Can what “really is” be determined?

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

This seems like a dance between subjective perception / meaning of “what is” and an objective “what really is”. 

If so, what is “really is”? Can what “really is” be determined?

It absolutely is that dance between the subjective perception and objective isness. It seems this is what the original  topic was touching on.

Quite often this dance of delusion in trying to 'find the truth' is a fixation which serves as a source of self suffering more than it is a cessation of it.

In a recent conversation somebody said to me they had no problem with suffering to find the truth because truth was their ultimate goal.

Although all we are finding is our personal subjective truth with no  assurances that it is universal objective truth despite the proclamations that it is.

 

Edited December 30, 2018 by SOUL

[Forestluv]

16 minutes ago, SOUL said:

It absolutely is that dance between the subjective perception and objective isness. 

What is objective “isness”? Can it be determined or described?

[SOUL]

15 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

What is objective “isness”? Can it be determined or described?

 It absolutely is determined, this is what the Manifest universe is, with the quantum craziness aside.

Yet there are no assurances that we perceive the objective isness accurately but may only be the subjective experience we perceive.

The unmanifest isness is still undetermined and the potential is infinite so that is all that may be described of it.

The mind trusts its own perception but do we in awareness trust the mind's trust of it's perception.

I prefer to find peace and contentment in just being even if it is a delusion of the Mind I perceive.

Edited December 30, 2018 by SOUL

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, SOUL said:

 It absolutely is determined, this is what the Manifest universe is, with the quantum craziness aside.

What is this objective “Manifest universe”? Can it be described in words?

[SOUL]

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

What is this objective “Manifest universe”? Can it be described in words?

To the degree that it can be accurately perceived and successfully communicated.

[Forestluv]

Just now, SOUL said:

To the degree that it can be accurately perceived and successfully communicated.

How can we determine whether this objective isness is being accurately perceived? 

[SOUL]

31 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

How can we determine whether this objective isness is being accurately perceived? 

 I guess I should have clarified that with the Manifest it is comprised of both subjective and objective. It also is that we have perception of the subjective and objective simultaneously as a whole experience.

That is the vexing question of how do we know if we have accurate perception because that perception is also comprised of both the subjective and objective as a whole.

 This is why I don't rely on accurate perception for liberation and my peace.

 

[SOUL]

55 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

I do not avoid delusion nor suffering.

When they seem to be, I try my best to sit with them and just be conscious.

When I invite those in; art happens.

I am fine with insanity.

I function. I can follow through my purpose.

I can express. 

It does not matter what it is.

Delusion or not, I have only love for it all!

 That is a very genuine expression of contentment and peace which very few experience, a radical acceptance of what is. Kudos.

[Forestluv]

17 minutes ago, SOUL said:

 I guess I should have clarified that with the Manifest it is comprised of both subjective and objective. It also is that we have perception of the subjective and objective simultaneously as a whole experience.

That is the vexing question of how do we know if we have accurate perception because that perception is also comprised of both the subjective and objective as a whole.

 This is why I don't rely on accurate perception for liberation and my peace.

 

Would this be analogous to the description of subjective as “relative” and objective as “absolute”? And the merging of the two?

[ground]

14 hours ago, ivankiss said:

@ground

Also, who says "it is impossible to impute truth and see emptiness [of truth] at the same time." ?

I am not to be nothing merely.

I am to recognize nothing and make something out of it.

Neither does this quote imply the assertion that you were nothing nor the assertion that you were something. The quote makes explicit that you are empty of truth.
Also, what do you want the expression 'I am to be/recognize' to imply? Do you meant that you have a task to accomplish? If so then that's an instance of belief in destiny, a god's determination or similar.

 

14 hours ago, ivankiss said:

@ground

How does life occur over there? Does it occur at all? If there is no one, only pure nothingness, how does that interract; function? Are you open about it in your every social encounter?

Do you interract with everybody as if they were nothing as well? As if they literally are you?

Or do you just laugh "from the inside" and play out whatever you play out?

I am honestly curious.

I understand there might be no trace of an Ego.

But there must be beingness. Isness. Awareness.

What is that like over there?

I dig you tho, nothing.

Everything occurs as it occurs. Nothing to affirm, nothing to negate. Nothing to accept, nothing to reject. Occurence doesn't establish any truth. Everthing is neither something nor nothing, nor both, nor neither. There is unbounded openness in spontaneous presence. Everything's perfect.

you know exactly when you slipped out and re-integrate again. That's the perfect yoga.

[SOUL]

18 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Would this be analogous to the description of subjective as “relative” and objective as “absolute”? And the merging of the two?

I had to contemplate this along with having some other commitments which provided me some time to explore it.

Yes, it is an experience in whole that is initially an expression from that whole in what appears as parts to the mind because of it's separating habituation. Although, we can recognize and realize that this is an illusion, it's not as it appears, and to this illusory perception of the mind we are merging two into a whole but it always is an expression of the whole anyway.

It could be said that the absolute is the unchanging and the relative is the changing. It could be said that the manifest is the objective and the unmanifest is the relative. It could be also said our experience of the absolute in spiritually is relative in nature and the experience of the relative of the world is objective in nature. I even got confused a few times trying to write all that.... so I'm not too sure it's that clear.

It's a whole experience that has quite a few ways of being expressed in experience and our perception of it isn't universally consistent in just one way. I guess this was a very complicated way of replying to your question with 'I don't really know if it is'. Haha

 

[Anton Rogachevski]

@SOUL  wow. I totally lost you there. I can't make no sense or connect it to anything at all. I guess you developed supernatural mind gymnastic abilities, and it's simply beyond my level.

[SOUL]

18 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

@SOUL  wow. I totally lost you there. I can't make no sense or connect it to anything at all. I guess you developed supernatural mind gymnastic abilities, and it's simply beyond my level.

Which post and which part? Some of it even confused me! BAHA

[ground]

32 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

@SOUL  wow. I totally lost you there. I can't make no sense or connect it to anything at all. I guess you developed supernatural mind gymnastic abilities, and it's simply beyond my level.

There is no limit to delusion. Therefore of course each deluded may be restricted to its own sphere of delusion.