Can Claiming Higher Spiral Dynamic Stages Tease the Ego?

[VioletFlame]

Hey guys so I'm just a bit curious about the stages & labels given involved in the Spiral Dynamics model and how it may sub-consciously affect some people and I'm curious to see if anyone else has questioned this. 

If one discovers they could be on a spiritually advanced level, especially when it is concluded through something highly professional, couldn't this fondle or flirt with their ego or ideas of Self, ID, etc? Is it possible they could become too attached to the idea that they are something special or superior than others from simply claiming that label and fall into a trap? 

Or perhaps if ego-life does arise from this analysis, perhaps the analysis was simply incorrect? Being that stage Yellow & Turquoise is revolved around working on ego-death and having that level of self-awareness to do so? That Yellow would in turn be eliminated due to ego-inflation? Because if one was Yellow, there would be no ego-inflation to face & toss in the grave, yeah?

I do understand that one cannot have one particular concrete stage and that it can get really complex. I'm just interested because I am aware that the ego unfortunately lies in the domain and community of psychology and spirituality as well, just as it does anywhere else.

I will most certainly be investing in more books on this topic as well, I am inspired to know it like the back of my hand haha. Also going to watch Leo's new video now!

Edited November 19, 2018 by VioletFlame

[VioletFlame]

I personally never like to quickly jump to any labels for myself because I don't like feeling confined to one single thing so this is why I appreciate the cumbersome aspects of Spiral Dynamics and its flexibility because it only gives more room for multi-colorful exploration of the psyche.  

But honestly, I've been extra careful and hesitant confronting which stages I feel I am in because I think humility has always been important to me sometimes even to the extent where in the past, I would have a difficult time accepting compliments from people in a healthy way. 

Sometimes I would find myself in the midst of receiving attention, but consciously pushing my ego down, trying to make it invisible, to avoid any wave of "big-headedness", which to me has always been kind of like a threat and disturbance if I was to ever acquire even an atom of arrogance. Some people in my life growing up if they weren't knocking me down they would advise "I'd grow a bigger ego for once." The thing is, I always found beauty & admiration in everything else around me in Life and it was totally in my nature to do so, and that kept me sane, but when it came to finding any good qualities within, it was a different experience.

To be boastful or exhibit any shimmer of pride would mean for me to feel seriously uncomfortable and awkward in my own skin.

I think at that time, being so young, not realizing that I can overcome this abusive relationship with the ego, I deflated it so much that I lost any sort of healthy confidence or self-esteem in me. You would think it would be the other way around right? If someone has a mainstream mentality. That praise & applaud & recognition in something would heal the wounds of a teenage introvert? Well surely enough, it had a counter effect, it was only self-punishment, and I had a lot of work to do. 

I didn't realize Self-Love was actually OK. I feared the traps of narcissism & ego but at first I didn't realize to love oneself does not mean to love one's ego. These are different things.

I always told myself it was not "right" to say anything good about myself growing up, and you could say others have contributed to this but you see, I don't even like to say that because I don't like to play the blame-game or dwell in the barriers of my childhood because it has only helped me grow.

I can say though, as a woman who has been diagnosed with PTSD at 15 years old, this label doesn't define me neither does it make me exceptional or a victim, for I am a survivor.

And I have come to the point in my life now where I can truly value every experience I've had in my life. Even the traumatic ones. Especially the traumatic ones.

I just know that when people acquire certain significant names or labels for themselves it can give them a boost, often a toxic boost. I know this is total trickery and I am questioning this because I hate to say but I see ego even within the spiritual community. Which is going against the true integrity of what it means to be spiritual. Does anybody else feel me on this? I know I ain't the only who sees this..

Like I just wouldn't want to see this happen in something as cool as Spiral Dynamics and have it remind me of like that energy of manic kids aimlessly crowding around in a classroom waiting their turn to measure who's tallest in the class with colored markers, one line on a chalkboard.

I think this should probably be done carefully and mastered patiently and with lots of study. I don't suspect this is an overnight evaluation. 

Does anybody get what I mean? 

Edited November 19, 2018 by VioletFlame

[Joseph Maynor]

Yes and you have to be careful about that.  Stay true to your instincts. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Jamesc]

I believe as you advance you become more aware of your ego, you appreciate it, take risks more seriously therefore understanding further what to look out for in terms of propelling yourself when ego is necessary. Ego transcendence is what we are after to allow it to realize it only ever had a purpose. With that said I think you are absolutely correct. To each there own, we can be extremely diverse and complex creatures the next day not, so. I think spiral dynamics is great for if you want to have a general basis for taking society as more of a whole. Apart from that, that will also have backfires.

[VioletFlame]

@Joseph Maynor Yes and I know there was a lot I wrote to be read lol so I understand if you didn't read it in its entirety but one of the things I mentioned was that basically ever since I hit adolescence and discovered the word "ego" I have been super cautious of it for a long time now, with ninja surveillance. Before I realized one must investigate the ego to change anything, I was almost afraid of its capabilities for a long time, which wasn't healthy either.

So this is why I am concerned with some alleged Yellow or Turquoise people (who may just think they are spiritually evolved) allowing their ego to crawl through the surface again. When I see people giving quick names for themselves in anything, especially in something so advanced it just makes me question if they really put in that much work or if they just want to be on that level.

This is why I am wondering when some people say they are "Yellow" or "Turquoise", what is really going on in their minds?

Stage Yellow shall not be the equivalent to earning yellow badges, stars & trophies and like decorations, hanging them at the top of a tree. I wear a golden crown but not for everyone else to see. Do you see my point? When there's an over-activation of chakras, there is an imbalance there too. This is why it's been said to semi-close the chakras after you've opened them so you are not too "vulnerable" to the toxicities in the air that could tackle or swallow your vibrant energy. 

Like look, I'm not being hasty to put myself under these categories, even if trustworthy spiritual healers may have told me some amazing things in the past, in which they did, I recognize that whether these things are true or not, I must even question them! I don't think most people would do this. If a guru or highly experienced teacher approached you and said you were an "Old Soul" or "Extremely awakened for your age" Would you second guess or question this or would you wear it on your sleeve? Like once I was told certain things, I immediately knew I had to "keep it to myself." You feel me?

I'm not the kind of person who will devalue or diminish someone else if they weren't Yellow neither will I act as though I'm any better than anyone, this goes against my nature. All I could do, would be to reflect upon it modestly & quietly. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by VioletFlame

[zambize]

I think you certainly made a really well articulated post, i'll put some of the thoughts that I had reading this out there, and hopefully something clicks or maybe gives you a different perspective.  

"I didn't realize Self-Love was actually OK"

To me Self-Love isn't just okay, it's AMAZING.  From what I can see, it's important to love yourself and to take care of yourself.  I mean when are we the most ready to do nice things for others, or improve our life?  Typically for me it's when i'm having a really good day, full of fun and love.  I just want to emphasize that self-love isn't just OK and something that you should focus on doing for yourself.  The world will be a better place in my opinion if you learn to love yourself.  

"I just know that when people acquire certain significant names or labels for themselves it can give them a boost, often a toxic boost."

In my experience,  I was heavily prone to giving lectures to other people in my head, and definitely continue to have a problem with feelings of moral superiority.  I'm not exactly sure why you feel like any particular label will help you.  Maybe you feel like you're at some stage and that diagnosing yourself at some spiritual level will help you focus on the kinds of solutions and pitfalls that people tend to have at that level?  Personally I avoid labeling myself just because it seems to do more harm than good, and instead focus on improving my life through comparing my day to day experience from one day to the next.  I think you can just do the same, and not worry about labeling yourself ever

 

"but consciously pushing my ego down"

This seems exhausting, typically when I have some ego-backlash or think something ridiculously narcissistic I try to just laugh it off and just be aware of it.  To me, you are giving more power to your ego if it's coming up with thoughts that make you feel like you have to force them out of your awareness.  I could be wrong, but laughing at my ego and ridiculous thoughts seems to have gotten me further than fighting with it.  Don't give it power it doesn't have.  

[VioletFlame]

@zambize Thank you!
YES. Self-Love is soo0oo much more than just OK, yes. I was just saying in retrospect, when I was a teenager I didn't realize this. I self-sabotaged a lot. I can say now though that I have been actively practicing Self-Love for about 3 years now and it has changed my life. I abandoned the anti-depressants I was put on as a teenager because I felt violated and it wasn't doing any good for me and I was diagnosed as well and I can say that was one of the best decisions of my life.

Because of meditating 30 mins-1 hour/day and making that as important of a daily priority as brushing my teeth, it has done numbers for me. I can't even put into words how much it's saved my life so far, as well as Self-Love and the practice of gratitude. I value gratitude soo fucking much because I see so many people around me taking things for granted and this is over-rated, people don't realize how much abundant love they can allow themselves to feel if they just practice gratitude in ALL. I recognize that what we have in the here and now, "good" experiences or "bad" this is all to be deeply appreciated, all learning experiences. Which is why I mentioned eventually embracing my traumatic childhood and finding the gratitude even in that. For someone with PTSD, and all the battles I had to go through growing up, I am now comfortably surprised to say that even having that mentality has helped me heal and grow immensely and is also rather self-loving.

Everything I mentioned about "pushing the ego down" and all, (that feeling of putting yourself in a shell so to speak ) this was all in retrospect. I was saying this is how I dealt with it years ago before I recognized the best ways of handling it. Thank you so much for your feedback. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by VioletFlame

[VioletFlame]

@Jamesc Thank you for your feedback!

[zambize]

12 hours ago, VioletFlame said:

@zambize Thank you!
YES. Self-Love is soo0oo much more than just OK, yes. I was just saying in retrospect, when I was a teenager I didn't realize this. I self-sabotaged a lot. I can say now though that I have been actively practicing Self-Love for about 3 years now and it has changed my life. I abandoned the anti-depressants I was put on as a teenager because I felt violated and it wasn't doing any good for me and I was diagnosed as well and I can say that was one of the best decisions of my life.

Because of meditating 30 mins-1 hour/day and making that as important of a daily priority as brushing my teeth, it has done numbers for me. I can't even put into words how much it's saved my life so far, as well as Self-Love and the practice of gratitude. I value gratitude soo fucking much because I see so many people around me taking things for granted and this is over-rated, people don't realize how much abundant love they can allow themselves to feel if they just practice gratitude in ALL. I recognize that what we have in the here and now, "good" experiences or "bad" this is all to be deeply appreciated, all learning experiences. Which is why I mentioned eventually embracing my traumatic childhood and finding the gratitude even in that. For someone with PTSD, and all the battles I had to go through growing up, I am now comfortably surprised to say that even having that mentality has helped me heal and grow immensely and is also rather self-loving.

Everything I mentioned about "pushing the ego down" and all, (that feeling of putting yourself in a shell so to speak ) this was all in retrospect. I was saying this is how I dealt with it years ago before I recognized the best ways of handling it. Thank you so much for your feedback. 

Sounds like you've really worked through some stuff then, wish you all the best from here on out!  

[Brittany]

Spiral Dynamics teases the ego - in general.

It is a method to evaluate the "separate self".

Similar to Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. 

These are methods for measuring the health of the "ego" and the individual "psyche"

When you leave the maya, spiral dynamics and the Maslow Hierarchy of Needs disappears.

[SFRL]

COULD IT? Lol

[Jack River]

Can Claiming Higher Spiral Dynamic Stages Tease the Ego?..

The ego is a spiral. A progressive movement of the center moving in time towards a projected and fixed goal. 

[VioletFlame]

@Jack River Very poetically said! That's understandable. Thank you.

I always imagined the ego to look like a black orb of dark energy that spins and spills or tangles like yarn. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by VioletFlame

[Joseph Maynor]

@VioletFlame

I’ll do a deeper read and give you a fuller comment.

[Forestluv]

@VioletFlame I think it depends on the context. In Tier2, the self has been mostly transcended. A Tier2 being sees the bigger picture that this illusory self is within something much more expansive. There isn’t a strong identification to beliefs and perspectives. Someone at Tier2 is not attached to being identified as “I am Yellow”. They are comfortable with the notion that there are Yellow/Turquoise level concepts and experiences that arise, yet no “me” to take ownership.

Yet, when communicating with people at Blue/Orange level development, Tier2 concepts and language are misunderstood. It can cause confusion, frustration and even conflict in the person. A Tier2 being is very good at going with the flow of relativity and can “meet a person where they are at”. If a Blue/Orange person asked what my experience of being a Yellow level thinker at my job is like - I would speak as if I identify as Yellow. And then, if Turqoise beings were conversing about the relative nature of Yellow which takes form as formless nothingness, identification with Yellow is dissolved.

I think the key is whether they are conscious that they are identifying with a stage for ease of conversation and can let go of identification when appropriate. Or, is the person attached to the identification and can’t let go. That type of egoic attachment is a delusional trap. And it gets sneakier as one evolves up the spiral. I’ve had to face it many times. Each time I entered a new stage, there was some sense of egoic attachment with identifying with that stage.

[Joseph Maynor]

Spiral Dynamics just is about the development of Ego.  One of the worst beliefs people come to cling to is the belief that Ego is bad and should be gotten rid of.  Although Ego is an illusion, it’s still a constant part of Experience just like the Body is.  Spiral Dynamics isn’t really about Enlightenment — actually paradoxically it is and it isn’t.  What I mean by that is you can be Enlightened and also fully love and accept Ego after you discover the true Self and after you see through the illusion of Ego.  You can think of Enlightenment as 3 stages — (1) Carry water and chop wood, (2) seek the true Self and actual reality, (3) carry water and chop wood.  It’s the third stage where Ego is accepted back into your life and loved, although it is an illusion.  Vision for your life is an illusion, it’s thought-stories, but you’re gonna have the illusion of Ego anyway, so the key is to create a loveable vision for Ego.  This is a vision where you’re doing good things for yourself and for others.  That’s a loveable vision even if you don’t accomplish it (or it doesn’t come to full fruition).  It’s still better than sitting on the couch eating junk food watching TV, wasting your life.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Spiral Dynamics just is about the development of Ego.  

My ego prefers to call it personal development ? 

[Joseph Maynor]

13 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

My ego prefers to call it personal development ? 

Sure.  Spiral Dynamics is just a model for Personal Development and development of groups of people.  I’m less concerned with the groups of people part of it and more concerned with how Spiral Dynamics aids my own personal development.  To what extent does Spiral Dynamics give me ideas on how to grow my Ego?  That’s the key question for me.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Jack River]

Is it healthy(holy) to cultivate/maintain an image about ourselves? 

If that image is not cultivated/maintained through action/reaction is that image anymore a part of experience? 

Going into this really has made relationship with my family/friends/environment healthy??

Edited November 21, 2018 by Jack River