Thanks Leo Gura ! J.Krishnamurti is wehre you're heading

[Jack River]

@SoonHei I can’t guide you. When you look to be guided that is psychological time. Any thing we do to become psychologically secure  destroys psychological security because it strengthens the illusion of self. 

So asking others for help to become enlightened fuels the illusion. Asking for help psychologically fuels the illusion. self improvement techniques as well. Looking to knowledge, practices, routines to get somewhere, as in psychological time, sustains the illusion. It’s fear resisting what is. All of this is the self thinking it is actual outside of thought and that self will apply thought to become better or whole. But any such movement keeps fear/psychological time alive. Psychological time feeds self. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Understanding thought which is where the self is born is all you need dude. And that’s all in you now to learn about. 

I recently started by watching fear and all its subtle disguised movement. All day nonstop. You will see that fear is always in motion when the self thinks it is separate from its contents/thought. And fear will be the motivater of desire, pleasure, attachment, identification, psychological time. Fear is all of that. Fear is resistance to what is. And that is what calls thought into action. Fear and thought are the same when self isn’t seen as only a function of thought and not seperate from thought. Most excellent. Keep watching k if you are confused. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Jack River

[SoonHei]

@Jack River hmmmm

 

this here: All of this is the self thinking it is actual outside of thought and that self will apply thought to become better or whole.

i get this... i know saying it this way is likely riddled with contradiction and auto-negation as yet again i clearly must be using psychological time to talk about this... 

and the self you are talking about here is the ego i presume?

the ego/self is itself a thought and i have read previous convos between you and faceless about thought trying to end thought by using more thought

my question again comes... how do i grasp this understanding if not by thought? how will it be understood or rationalized for me... it just will be?

when i have this hollictic understanding and seeing thru of the illusion... will there not be the next thought which might be "aahaa!" NOW I Truly get it and see thru it? 

or it just ends? and then thoughts are thunk by choosing whenever needed only?

[Jack River]

Just now, SoonHei said:

and the self you are talking about here is the ego i presume?

Yep. Talking about he other self is thought going beyond its limit again. Thought can see it’s own content. It is content. 

 

3 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

how do i grasp this understanding if not by thought?

That is self asking thought to bring about clarity, which is the reason for unclarity. All you can do now is understand your limits. What is false. You will see that intelligence will act and thought will recognize this and put order in thought itself. 

 

7 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

when i have this hollictic understanding and seeing thru of the illusion... will there not be the next thought which might be "aahaa!" NOW I Truly get it and see thru it? 

 

You may see that Truth/intelligence will act to put order in thought. Thought will recognize this truth and thought will change its usual pattern of time. This intelligence basically put thought in its place. So thought will act to do practical stuff. But thought will no longer move psychologically. So the majority of the day will be spent in pure silence or emptiness, maybe nothingness. 

[Jack River]

Comprehending the whole of thought will ultimately end thought as psychological momentum. Then there will be no more confusion/conflict/suffering. All of that can end immediately if we see how time is actually prolonging/procrastinating freedom now. Life changing. 

[SoonHei]

@Jack River how long were you on the path before this understanding came about?

did you try some other practices like meditation or any psychedelics etc before you paid attention to this little facet here and cracked open the universe? 

 

5 minutes ago, Jack River said:

So the majority of the day will be spent in pure silence or emptiness, maybe nothingness. 

and is this how it is for you most of the days?  

[Jack River]

When you look at the posts that robdl and faceless were always witting in, they were pointing to how desire/pleasure/attachment/division/identification with thought/psychological becoming/ were really all the movement of thought/self. Or that knowledge/experience is the self not of the self. That type of talk. Do you remember? They were pointing at how it was all really one movement of time. Time = all of that. Time= all of content of self. Everything within the field of conditioned consciousness is the movement of time/fear. 

[SoonHei]

@Jack River i dont know if you have read this before

@Nahm posted it in an other thread

i found it to be beautiful

 

It’s the World Cup Final, and a man makes his way to his seat right next to the pitch. He sits down, noticing that the seat next to him is empty. He leans over and asks his neighbour if someone will be sitting there. ‘No,’ says the neighbour. ‘The seat is empty.’ ‘This is incredible,’ said the man. ‘Who in their right mind would have a seat like this for the Final and not use it?’ The neighbour says, ‘Well actually the seat belongs to me. I was supposed to come with my wife, but she passed away. This is the first World Cup Final we haven’t been to together since we got married.’ ‘Oh, I’m so sorry to hear that. That’s terrible….But couldn’t you find someone else, a friend, relative or even a neighbour to take her seat?’ The man shakes his head. ‘No,’ he says. ‘They’re all at the funeral’.

 

Laughter!

 

(That empty, thoughtless space, between the joke, and the laughter, is where the understanding occurred.)

 

 

i guess to see this movement of the fear/thought and to UNDERSTAND it... 

that understanding also has to occur in that empty, thoughtless space - between the question (thought) and the realization of seeing thru the illusion holistically as you say. 

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

@Jack River how long were you on the path before this understanding came about?

did you try some other practices like meditation or any psychedelics etc before you paid attention to this little facet here and cracked open the universe? 

 

 

I spent 9 years on a path. Until 3 months ago I saw that a path is self itself. This holistic Insight ends all falsity. 

 

6 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

and is this how it is for you most of the days?  

Up until about month and half ago yep. Actually spend more time in unconsciousness now. Or headless as faceless calls it. 

[Jack River]

5 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

guess to see this movement of the fear/thought and to UNDERSTAND it... 

that understanding also has to occur in that empty, thoughtless space - between the question (thought) and the realization of seeing thru the illusion holistically as you say. 

Yep. Important to know when this empty/silent place is self impsed though. Thought will imitate that emptiness fosho. Psychological time will always bring such illusion dude. That’s why it’s good to understand thought before trying it get somewhere. Then we actually don’t try and get somewhere. Then we don’t spend our whole life chasing illusion. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Jack River

[SoonHei]

4 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Actually spend more time in unconsciousness now. Or headless as faceless calls it. 

is that the place of peacefull infinte bliss and love? is that where you rest now and speak out of directly?

[Jack River]

@SoonHei see for yourself brah?Surf time

Edited October 25, 2018 by Jack River

[PsiloPutty]

@Jack River and @SoonHei , this is a very useful thread. I'll read it again later when I'm more....thoughtless. That's so thoughtful of me, isn't it?  

[SoonHei]

@Jack River indeed <3 thank you

 

@PsiloPutty that is thoughtrific!  

[DrewNows]

@SoonHei

Often people, like me, get caught up in the conceptualizations of enlightenment and this "process" or "technique" when really what's needed is the dropping (letting go) of all concepts/ideas before observing/seeing psychological time/fear in action and its relationship with experience phenomena 

Edited October 25, 2018 by DrewNows

[Tony 845]

@PsiloPutty Leo will be fully enlightend within the decade I bet.