If all of mankind were enlightened most likely there would be no Therapist.

[Forestluv]

11 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Don't they have shamans instead? Pretty much the same thing. A therapist is someone who will listen non-judgmentally and create a space of acceptance like a mirror for the individual to find themselves. In addition, they can guide that person and enable them to feel their feelings deeper, when they do not know how to.

That view uses a hierarchal framework. Imagine a community of shamans.

They only used the term “shaman” with those that were unawakened.

[Brittany]

If the entire world was enlightened, a ton of industries would collapse. Not just therapy.

Awakened people spend less money on materialism and escapism overall. 

A ton of industries are collapsing right now because a large portion of the youth are becoming green stage.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Brittany

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Imagine a community of shamans.

That’s what it’s all about. The sooner conciousness stops depending on thought (knowledge) as in psychology concepts to relive its own psychological problems the sooner we are free of psychological authority/dependence that fuel all that. 

[SgtPepper]

1 minute ago, Jack River said:

Only looking to what thought has invented to solve psychological problems is the very movement of psychological time that creates those problems. If that was commonly understood there would be no need for psychologist. We would see that freedom isn’t time dependent. It is not the result of knowledge. 

Psychologist don't only look to Thought as a way to solve neurosis. They also look to awareness and self-reflection with or without thoughts. 

Now even if you realized and conceptualized it. "All neurosis is caused by thoughts, so stop having them!" (this idea would fit in the field of psychology) It would be a hypothesis that one could test in the western world, etc. 

However, You are not even considering the amount of "hard wired" beliefs, habits, defensiveness people would have to unravel within themselves to even come to that realization themselves. 

how would it help a person who is in need right now? I don't really see how explaining this to someone with severe OCD would help them. They would think you're full of shit or feel they are not in control. That's how strong the EGO is. 

Psychologists meet their clients at their level and respect their journey too.

Breaking ego pattern requires psychedelics, self-reflection, patience, time, and openness to change, that is what psychologists CAN provide to people who do not know how. 

[Forestluv]

58 minutes ago, Aimblack said:

@Serotoninluv Again with the pseudo answers either your spirituality level is over 9000 and you can't be bothered to answer or you answer choose one. "Dig deeper. Keep digging" doesn't even mean anything in this context...like imagine if my first response to your first post was "You don't have the whole picture, keep seeking and you shall understand"

You are asking me to be reasonable, which is challenging for me. I’m still developing that skill. 

[Jack River]

Just now, Brittany said:

If the entire world was enlightened, a ton of industries would collapse. Not just therapy.

Awakened people spend less money on materialism and escapism overall. 

We have the intellect to solve all economic issues. We are held back by psychological issues. The need for power, respect, seeking pleasure as in greed and such keeps society the way it is now. 

[SgtPepper]

8 minutes ago, Jack River said:

@SgtPepper do you think understanding the self/thought in education would be a good idea? Like as a youngster.  

YES. Education should focus on encouraging self-reflection, awareness, creativity, internal motivation, acceptance, tolerance, openness, communication, discussions, listening to others, humbling yourself, recognizing weaknesses and strengths, and how to get better at all of it.

[Jack River]

9 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Psychologist don't only look to Thought as a way to solve neurosis. They also look to awareness and self-reflection with or without thoughts. 

Now even if you realized and conceptualized it. "All neurosis is caused by thoughts, so stop having them!" (this idea would fit in the field of psychology) It would be a hypothesis that one could test in the western world, etc. 

However, You are not even considering the amount of "hard wired" beliefs, habits, defensiveness people would have to unravel within themselves to even come to that realization themselves. 

how would it help a person who is in need right now? I don't really see how explaining this to someone with severe OCD would help them. They would think you're full of shit or feel they are not in control. That's how strong the EGO is. 

Psychologists meet their clients at their level and respect their journey too.

 

I’m saying now we should start with the young right out of the gate. We need to make a dramatic change today to make a different tomorrow and healthy tomorrow. 

 

9 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Breaking ego pattern requires psychedelics, self-reflection, patience, time, and openness to change, that is what psychologists CAN provide to people who do not know how. 

That of Time, is the reason for psychological disorder dude. Thought looks to all of the above to solve its problems. That’s why I’m saying staring young is a good idea. The truth is we don’t need any “thing” to see through the illusion of ego.  It there is no education of this as it is the most important type of education. And we don’t get that. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[SgtPepper]

9 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

That view uses a hierarchal framework. Imagine a community of shamans.

They only used the term “shaman” with those that were unawakened.

Was it like that in the Peru community?

I do not see this happening as a shaman who has experienced 100 doses of ayahuasca is more experienced than someone who has only done 25. Hence there will always be a hierarchal perspective because it does serve our ego. In the sense that if I am looking for advice or some sort of ailment. I feel some sort of "negative" way, Am I going to visit the shaman with 100 doses of ayahuasca, maybe he appears to have higher wisdom. Or will I visit the other.

Yes, we can learn from everyone, everyone has their own wisdom, but when it comes to survival, I do not see the hierarchal perspective going away because it is useful when it comes to survive. 

I will always view someone who loves children as "better" from MY perspective, than someone who abuses their children. From God's perspective, he Loves all because God is Love. 

Personally, I think ego will always exist and is part of God's plan. I think the main goal of this work is to learn balance between ego and God. Ultimately it is all God, but you need to save yourself before you can save someone else. 

[Jack River]

I’m not saying don’t have psychologist. But we should be looking at prevention. As in being able to live without conflict. 

[Jack River]

I’m not saying we should not have psychologist or therapist...But we should be looking at prevention. As in being able to live without conflict. And without need to depend on a psychological authority. 

Hownto live psychologically should be the first thing we understand. It’s the most important. All other learning cones second.  

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[SgtPepper]

5 minutes ago, Jack River said:

I’m saying now we should start with the young right out of the gate. We need to make a dramatic change today to make a different tomorrow and healthy tomorrow. 

 

That of Time the reason for psychological disorder dude. Thought looks to all of the above to solve its problems. That’s why I’m saying staring young is a good idea. The truth is we don’t need any “thing” to see through the illusion of ego. 

That's not really practical. The only thing you can do is start with yourself and spread the word.

I do not think its as simple as you posit to be. 

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Was it like that in the Peru community?

I do not see this happening as a shaman who has experienced 100 doses of ayahuasca is more experienced than someone who has only done 25. Hence there will always be a hierarchal perspective because it does serve our ego. In the sense that if I am looking for advice or some sort of ailment. I feel some sort of "negative" way, Am I going to visit the shaman with 100 doses of ayahuasca, maybe he appears to have higher wisdom. Or will I visit the other. 

That’s like asking a billion dollar lottery winner how many lottery tickets they bought.

Sure, buying more tickets improves one’s chances, yet once you win, how many tickets you bought becomes irrelevant. 

[Jack River]

Just now, SgtPepper said:

That's not really practical. The only thing you can do is start with yourself and spread the word.

I do not think its as simple as you posit to be. 

Fosho. I’m just saying it should be number one thing to be communicated..and it is not. 

[Jack River]

If we all understand ourselves that is expressed in society. But it is not communicated that that is necessary. That goes against the hierarchical structure of society. So kids don’t get the value of that communicated to them. Society doesn’t want people who can do this. It’s built on authority. We are breed to depend. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

9 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

That's not really practical. The only thing you can do is start with yourself and spread the word.

 

By us doing this we then communicate it to others. Then it becomes more common as somthing important for conciousness to value. 

[Jack River]

It’s actually the most practical thing to do. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[SgtPepper]

18 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Hownto live psychologically should be the first thing we understand. It’s the most important. All other learning cones second.  

I definitely agree with that. or at least, that's always been my concern since I was a teenager. 

To me there will be authorities and hierarchies.

I mean just look at this community, we are all on this pathless path, but lets not kid ourselves to say we equally value each other opinions. I am 24 and I look up to Leo because he is older and has more experience than me in this field. At some point, I will outgrow all teachers and become a teacher myself for another student. How else can I listen to someone with complete attention if I do not humble myself or else I would not be reading any books or watching Leo's content. 

I mean why not just become a heroin dealer vs becoming an engineer that develops phones?

Why not, become a prostitute, sucking 21 dicks a week vs getting a job at a daycare taking care of people's children?

Because we individually actually PREFER stuff. As long as I'd rather be a labor in construction than sucking dicks for money than I will always value something over something else. Hence Hierarchy. Or forget about money. As long as I'd rather snowboard than skateboard, then snowboarding will always appear "higher" to me. 

YES in the bigger picture, when you zoom out, we are all one, but from our relative small perspective, this stuff does matter. 

the sameness and difference episode is relevant to this discussion.

Edit:

Disclaimer: excuse my passion btw. I enjoy discussing and am not trying to be argumentative. I am as much a student as everyone here. I am just becoming extreme in my communication here to get across my point. 

@Jack River I agree with you. As someone playing the capitalism game, in western society, going into the psychology field. That is exactly what I plan to do and am hoping to earn a living by guiding people with many perspectives and approaches.

Edited October 15, 2018 by SgtPepper

[hundreth]

3 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

To me there will be authorities and hierarchies.

I mean just look at this community, we are all on this pathless path, but lets not kid ourselves to say we equally value each other opinions. I am 24 and I look up to Leo because he is older and has more experience than me in this field. At some point, I will outgrow all teachers and become a teacher myself for another student. How else can I listen to someone with complete attention if I do not humble myself or else I would not be reading any books or watching Leo's content. 

Stop. Resisting. Stage. Green!

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

To me there will be authorities and hierarchies.

All we can do is end that pattern in ourselves and not project that onto others. But to say I accept all that because it is inevitable...I won’t do that anymore. Since freedom say in i now feel obligated to not work in that pattern. With freedom we see the how important it is in consciousness. I feel totally responsible for consciousness..I am it.