Does free will exist?

[ajasatya]

this question is a dead end. the veracity of its answer cannot be validated.

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What you want is awareness.

Awareness of what? 

[metwinn]

Just now, ajasatya said:

this question is a dead end. the veracity of its answer cannot be validated.

Can you explain why?

[ajasatya]

3 minutes ago, metwinn said:

Can you explain why?

what would convince you that free will exists or doesn't exist? what would a proper proof look like?

[Joseph Maynor]

6 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Awareness of what? 

You don’t know?

[metwinn]

1 minute ago, ajasatya said:

what would convince you that free will exists or doesn't exist? what would a proper proof look like?

You can see clearly for yourself if you approach it with an open mind.

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You don’t know?

I’m asking you. We seem to have a communication block. So I want to make sure I don’t assume one hasn’t gone beyond where one hasn’t yet began. Lol 

you say awareness is key. Awareness to what?

Edited June 28, 2018 by Faceless

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Faceless said:

I’m asking you. We seem to have a communication block. So I want to make sure I don’t assume one hasn’t gone beyond where one hasn’t yet began. Lol 

you say awareness is key. Awareness to what?

Full awareness and embodiment of the difference between conceptual systems and Existential Truth.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Faceless]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

Awareness of the difference between the content of thought-stories and Existential Truth.

So the difference between thought and truth? 

 

And what do you mean by existential Truth? just to be clear.

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, Faceless said:

So the difference between thought and truth? 

 

And what do you mean by existential Truth? just to be clear.

Existential Truth points to BE-ing, it means only a pointing.

[Faceless]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Full awareness and embodiment of the difference between conceptual systems and Existential Truth.

What do you mean by existential truth? 

Lets start with this first. If you don’t mind buddy

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

What do you mean by existential truth? 

Lets start with this first. If you don’t mind buddy

I already answered that.  See above.

[Faceless]

No. What is existential truth? 

What does that imply? 

Where did you get that term? 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

15 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Existential Truth points to BE-ing, it means only a pointing.

I’m sorry, I didn’t see this. 

So truth is beyond thought, right?

[Joseph Maynor]

10 minutes ago, Faceless said:

I’m sorry, I didn’t see this. 

So truth is beyond thought, right?

Though-stories never tell us properties of Existential Truth because Existential Truth is not a thing with properties.  That’s a Tier-One Metaphysics way of thinking about ‘reality’.  Existential Truth is literally what BE-ing points to.  The pointer can be released once you see what it points to.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[metwinn]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

Though-stories never tell us properties of Existential Truth because Existential Truth is not a thing with properties.

Pure being or existential truth is what gives rise to properties.@Faceless

[White]

On 27/06/2018 at 11:18 PM, metwinn said:

I'm curious to hear people's veiw on free will and control etc.

No, not really. Free will does not exist because we are all controlled by nature / the will to live. We can't stop that, but we can work to understand it and get some freedom from it. Which is what development is about. 

Notice that even in spiritual circles all of it is just pleasure/power seeking. We have an increase in happiness when we perceive our chances of survival going up (making money, making friends, getting sex, securing power, winning debates, collecting a following, having an imaginary God looking after our interests) and we have a decrease in happiness (anger and depression etc.) when things go wrong for us.  It's all down to the will to life, to exist. All of it is controlled by the sex, food and power drive, there is no actual free will involved in any of this. 

As an experiment start a YouTube channel talking about enlightenment and you can guarantee your state of happiness is secured because now you have girls screaming your name and guys thinking you are a profit. Same with a spiritual sangha.  It's all an ego game 

Edited June 28, 2018 by White

[Faceless]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

Though-stories never tell us properties of Existential Truth because Existential Truth is not a thing with properties.

Thought cannot know truth. Truth is unknowable. Right. 

So what are you aware of when you say awareness between “thought-stories” and existential truth? 

How are you (thought) aware of truth? Or are you simply aware that truth cannot be known by thought?

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, White said:

No, not really. Free will does not exist because we are all controlled by nature / the will to live. We can't stop that, but we can work to understand it and get some freedom from it. Which is what development is about. 

Relatively there are conditions (physical-and with thought obviously) 

interdependence yes....but we are speaking psychologically. Or so I am lol

Edited June 28, 2018 by Faceless

[Joseph Maynor]

5 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Thought cannot know truth. Truth is unknowable. Right. 

So what are you aware of when you say awareness between “thought-stories” and existential truth? 

How are you (thought) aware of truth? Or are you simply aware that truth cannot be known by thought?

There’s a difference between Existential Truth as a pointer and useful conceptual systems about Enlightenment.  We do use language, and that’s fine — it’s just that many of us are stuck in a Tier-One Metaphysics about ‘reality’.  Existential Truth doesn’t speak.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Joseph Maynor