Does free will exist?

[Victor Mgazi]

3 minutes ago, Faceless said:

To see the fact in oneself. Has nothing to do with belief 

So your current understanding of freewill is not a belief? 

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, robdl said:

I speak on the facts of the nature of the movement of thought-self.  These aren't things I've read about and started believing.  This is based on whole, direct insight into the complete movement of thought-self.  Direct self-understanding. 

That’s it. 

To see that the self is an illusion. But that illusion is a fact. Caused by A process that is happening with the brain cells. 

[metwinn]

Just now, Victor Mgazi said:

So your current understanding of freewill is not a belief? 

Of course it is. But thats not to say that the belief is not true, but only true to the one who believes it. 

[metwinn]

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

That’s it. 

To see that the self is an illusion. But that illusion is a fact. Caused by A process that is happening with the brain cells. 

I agree but the word fact needs to go I believe.

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, Victor Mgazi said:

So your current understanding of freewill is not a belief? 

I have no idea what the concept of freewill says. 

I just went into the words (free) and (will) 

and through my understanding of thought as a fact through direct observation wrote that on that thread on freewill. 

[metwinn]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

I have no idea what the concept of freewill says. 

I just went into the words (free) and (will) 

and through my understanding of thought as a fact through direct observation wrote that on that thread on freewill. 

You didn't answer the question though did you. Your current understanding of freewill is a belief or is it not a belief. Your understanding.

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, metwinn said:

I agree but the word fact needs to go I believe.

No it needs to stay.

What is the fact.

If you are violent, they is the fact. If you live in fear, that is a fact  

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Faceless

[metwinn]

Just now, Faceless said:

No it needs to stay.

what ever is is the fact. If you are violent, they is the fact. If you live in fear, that is a fact  

 

But you are the one deciding what is and  is not voilent therefore you believe it to be voilent. Something cant be objectivlely voilent.

[Faceless]

11 minutes ago, metwinn said:

Define fact.

a thing that is indisputably the case.

An actuality

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, metwinn said:

But you are the one deciding what is and  is not voilent therefore you believe it to be voilent. Something cant be objectivlely voilent.

If you are bound by psychological fear you are violent. Love is not in that case. This is a FACT

 

[metwinn]

Just now, Faceless said:

a thing that is indisputably the case.

An actuality

The actuality you are trying to define is completely your subjective view on it which you are labeling a fact. Violence is not a fact because it needs you to decide what is violent and isnt violent. Its a belief. Truth lies in objectivity.

[Victor Mgazi]

Consider this. Free will is much more mysterious than we think. 

Because determinism was the idea used to back up another idea and deter... Suggests causality which then implies origin (beginning). 

Try to see that the only beginning is the "now" and not the past thought like you mentioned earlier. 

The past can only exist in the present moment and so it is even with the future. And this rules of determinism. 

But then again even this is a belief. 

[metwinn]

Could we possibly hear @Leo Gura thoughts on the matter?

[Faceless]

Not truth, fact. Truth is unknowable. I’m speaking from that which thought can touch upon. That which is relative to thought. When there is fear, violence follows.

[Faceless]

You can’t talk about your objective reality. Because all your talk is bound by thought. 

TRUTH is independent of thought. 

Again speaking relatively. 

[Nahm]

[Nahm]

Nonduality is the way. 

[metwinn]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

Not truth, fact. Truth is unknowable. I’m speaking from that which thought can touch upon. That which is relative to thought. When there is fear, violence follows.

Truth is unknowable yes, what you speak of as fact is merely belief. fact and truth are synonymous in my eyes. That which thought can touch upon are beliefs and viewpoints.

[Victor Mgazi]

@Nahm That is funny. 

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

 

[metwinn]

4 minutes ago, Nahm said: