Martin Ball says physical reality is real

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

But does that not imply some form of continuity of this hallucinated universe ?

It doesn't have to.

But even if it did, so what?

You can dream similar dreams. Or not.

Continuity cannot be used to negate dreaming. Continuity is a type of dream.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Oppositionless]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The physical world is a hallucination, but the hallucination is real.

"The world is illusory,

Only Brahman is real,

Brahman is the world. "

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You do not control your hallucination.

Interesting.

[Cubbage]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Continuity is a type of dream.

I love this.

[Leo Gura]

A perfectly consistent and continuous dream is still a dream, it is just harder to escape.

You will notice Martin Ball still believes in an external material world. He doesn't have enough construct-awareness to see that he is dreaming the external world.

Which is why I said before that his energy work approach is not enough in this work. God-Realization requires understanding, not just high states or energy work.

He lacks the understanding that Everything is his own Mind.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura

[Oppositionless]

Psychedelics , not enough 

meditation , not enough 

philosophy, not enough 

All three, now we're talking .

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

Psychedelics , not enough 

meditation , not enough 

philosophy, not enough 

All three, now we're talking .

I would add common sense to this list as the fourth one lol.  

[Wilhelm44]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A perfectly consistent and continuous dream is still a dream

I totally agree it's a dream, it's not material.

But is it not possible that the continuity of the dream universe somehow continues without my body, ie when my body dies ?

[Oppositionless]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I would add common sense to this list as the fourth one lol.  

It's shockingly uncommon .

[Jodistrict]

Kashmir Shaivism has a grounded philosophy and believes in a physical world.  It is the view of the tantra path.  The vedanta path (all is illusion) is the path of renunciation.  Kashmir Shaivism is radically life-affirming.  Because the physical world is made of Shiva's energy, nothing is inherently impure or separate from God.  A practitioner does not need to flee society or renounce the senses.  

 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I totally agree it's a dream, it's not material.

But is it not possible that the continuity of the dream universe somehow continues without my body, ie when my body dies ?

It can continue, but then you must keep hallucinating it.

4 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

Kashmir Shaivism has a grounded philosophy and believes in a physical world.  It is the view of the tantra path.

There cannot be a distinction between the physical and non-physical. This is ontologically incoherent.

If there is a difference between the physical and non-physical, then Oneness is false and God does not exist.

You cannot have both division and God. God is Unity. If there is a physical world outside of you, then there is no Unity.

Edited 57 minutes ago by Leo Gura

[Oppositionless]

What about neutral monism, the view that reality is neither inherently mental nor inherently material?

[Jodistrict]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It can continue, but then you must keep hallucinating it.

There cannot be a distinction between the physical and non-physical. This is ontologically incoherent.

If there is a difference between the physical and non-physical, then Oneness is false and God does not exist.

You cannot have both division and God. God is Unity. If there is a physical world outside of you, then there is no Unity.

Kashmir Shaivism solves this by stating that Unity is not static:  Unity is dynamic.  God has two inseparable aspects:  Shiva (perfect stillness) and Shakti (the dynamic power to manifest, percieve and take form).    The "physical" is simply choosing to take a concrete shape through Shakti's powers.  

https://www.facebook.com/groups/217884362608282/posts/396184704778246/

[Wilhelm44]

5 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

neither inherently mental nor inherently material?

The google definition didn't make sense to me.

Can you explain how this works in simple terms ?

[Wilhelm44]

5 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

Kashmir Shaivism solves this by stating that Unity is not static:  Unity is dynamic.  God has two inseparable aspects:  Shiva (perfect stillness) and Shakti (the dynamic power to manifest, percieve and take form).    The "physical" is simply choosing to take a concrete shape through Shakti's powers.  

We could still say that the physical is a dream, in that Shiva is unaffected by it ?

[Oppositionless]

6 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

The google definition didn't make sense to me.

Can you explain how this works in simple terms ?

There are a lot of different types of neutral monism. But essentially you have one "substance" or basic reality, which can take on either physical or mental properties, presumably based on how it's "arranged" or "viewed."

some readings of the Heart Sutra "form is emptiness, emptiness is form" lean neutral monist, but thats somewhat dubious.

Bertrand Russell might be the most famous Western neutral monist. 

Im not a big fan of it but I wanted to throw it out there as an option. 

Edited 40 minutes ago by Oppositionless

[Wilhelm44]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It can continue, but then you must keep hallucinating it.

Yes, I like that better.

[Wilhelm44]

1 minute ago, Oppositionless said:

There are a lot of different types of neutral monism. But essentially you have one "substance" or basic reality, which can take on either physical or mental properties, presumably based on how it's "arranged" or "viewed."

Im not a big fan of it but I wanted to throw it out there as an option. 

And that substance must be some kind of undefined mystery then.

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

Kashmir Shaivism solves this by stating that Unity is not static:  Unity is dynamic.  God has two inseparable aspects

That is just nonduality.

No one is claiming Unity is static.

Obviously duality comes out of Unity.

Edited 35 minutes ago by Leo Gura

[Oppositionless]

3 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

And that substance must be some kind of undefined mystery then.

Yeah. But I'll steelman it by saying , I don't think Mind is much less mysterious either. I can't define mind, its very weird to me. altho I do know it exists.