Is Rap Music Stage Red? - Sociological Analysis

[Leo Gura]

On 10/26/2026 at 2:41 AM, Carl-Richard said:

Pop music that only sing about partying and drinking are also Stage Red.

That is more Orange than Red.

Red is more about shooting, killing, stealing, raping, drug-dealing, gangs.

Rappers were orginally actual criminals and gangsters. Today's rappers are fake gangsters. Cock-suckin, pussy-eatin, pranksters.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Majed said:

I don't think the idea that stage red is a stage you pass through is accurate.

Everybody, unless they're severely mentally retarded, passes through the cognitive equivalents of Stage Red (impulsive egocentered awareness) which comes with its own personal cultural code even if it's not prevalent in the larger society (and you'll glean it from your peers, i.e. age-specific subcultures). It comes online around age 3 or so.

My claim is it doesn't actually calm down significantly before you pass your teenage years and your prefrontal cortex is "fully developed" (which tends to be put at 25 for males, 20 for females). And if you didn't update your cultural code to reflect that change (like in the "27-club" phenomena), you either die or end up a career criminal or you're simply a psychopath (i.e. the extreme end of impulsive egocentrism).

In the modern world, "growing up" means transcending Red as a primary driver and entering Blue and later beyond. Being actually cognitively compatible with higher stages than that either takes time, or it's simply not in the cards for you (there are definitely closeminded simpleminded people in Orange societies and above that you would label as regressive or prejudiced or old-fashioned or simply simpleminded people. These are Blue, if not Red of course).

People also underestimate how much practice rational thinking takes to get even somewhat right (which is where the scientific and entrepreneurial [Orange] mindset is born). I believe it was Jordan Peterson who said that first-year undergraduates regularly make plain logical errors in essays. Forget about getting to relativistic or systemic stages of thinking (where you can truly exercise it independently and producing original thoughts at that level and not simply role-playing it based on some few terms you learned one year ago or just one obscure psychological framework), that comes way later, maybe after becoming thoroughly familar with graduate or post-graduate levels of knowledge. Certainly forget about "transcending rationality" before you've barely learned to use it.

Edited 3 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is more Orange than Red.

Red is more about shooting, killing, stealing, raping, drug-dealing, gangs.

No, those are the extremes of Red, the extremes of impulsive egocentrism. If partying and drinking is quintessentially Orange, I guess the entire world is Orange (give or take muslims and some Christian denominations).

Edited 3 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

If partying and drinking is quintessentially Orange,

Clubbing and Western nightlife is certainly Orange. Pop songs are a recent Orange invention.

Red is getting drunk on wine and going to slaughter and rape a rival clan.

You think Katy Perry is Red or Orange?

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[oOo]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Clubbing and Western nightlife is certainly Orange. Pop songs are a recent Orange invention.

Red is getting drunk on wine and going to slaughter and rape a rival clan.

No one in this conversation has likely killed anyone, or at least, not from stage red. 

I went through the gangster phase when I was between 9 and 12 years old. 

Wu-Tang clothing, Da Da, wore chains, etc. 

I was writing and singing music on mother earth at age 18; green-yellow-turquoise veins.

You shouldn't have a chronological fixation @Carl-Richard, everyone has their own unique development and cultural influences.

Medical conditions as well can complicate matters: me epilepsy, progressing about 21 years, many cognitive processing difficulties, emotional dysregulation, etc; now a master a recovery and expectations. 

Edited 3 hours ago by oOo

[Adam M]

Rap music is just rhythm and poetry. 

Some very beautiful stage Green / Turquoise raps have been written, with deep lyrics, clever wordplay, and self-actualization principles of self-acceptance and being a better person.
 

 

Lauryn Hill's music is a good example of conscious hip-hop, as well.

Edited 3 hours ago by Adam M

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Clubbing and Western nightlife is certainly Orange.

I knew this was the equivocation that could be happening but denial got me again. "Throwing a party" was what was intended.

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Pop songs are a recent Orange invention.

1. Let's not go down the rabbithole of defining pop music (although I agree the mass produced stuff you hear on the radio today is a product of Orange). 2. Again, partying and having "fun fun fun, looking forward to the weekend" is not.

Edited 2 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Again, partying and having "fun fun fun, looking forward to the weekend" is not.

That is Orange in pop songs. You are talking about Western party sub-culture, which is Orange.

Vegas, Miami, NYC, LA nightlife. This is all highly Orange and then they sing songs about it and for it.

Pop songs are by Orange for Orange. Rap is by Red for Red and Orange who thinks Red is edgy and cool.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Human Mint]

6 minutes ago, Adam M said:

Rap music is just rhythm and poetry. 

Some very beautiful stage Green / Turquoise raps have been written, with deep lyrics, clever wordplay, and self-actualization principles of self-acceptance and being a better person.
 

 

What you say is cool, but that example is blue to orange. Talking about church, glory to God, the Bible, and then about individualistic pursuits like you're gonna make it big.

[oOo]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is Orange in pop songs. You are talking about Western party sub-culture, which is Orange.

Vegas, Miami, NYC, LA nightlife. This is all highly Orange and then they sing songs about it and for it.

Pop songs are by Orange for Orange. Rap is by Red for Red and Orange who thinks Red is edgy and cool.

This lacks nuance. You're mixing origins with evolution; both distinct. Music joins people, people change the music overtime as new people find new melodies within the same genre.

[Joseph Maynor]

It might be worthwhile to re-read the chapter on stage red in the book.

[Carl-Richard]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is Orange in pop songs. Your are talking about Western party sub-culture, which is Orange.

Again, throwing a party and "having fun" is not Orange. The Orange aesthetic is besides the point. What is the driver for letting loose and living for the moment? "Uhhh uhhh the weekend which is a way that we give ourselves a break from the daily grind of capitalism". And what does that break consist of? Letting loose some impulsiveness. Even just standard social gatherings outside work, it's a time where you lay down the "discipline" and let loose a bit.

The impulsive egocentrism is the core of Red that all individuals go through. It's more when it becomes the main cultural code in the society (or the person is truly thoroughly Red) that the more interpersonal interaction styles like dominance, power, pride, etc. become more pervasive or "visible" in these stereotypically bombastic ways (because that is how society gets "enforced" at that level). A stoner teenager who has ultimately no concern for anybody else than themselves and their next high, and who might engage in theft, lying, cheating just to serve those needs, that's a less stereotypical and visible kind of Red.

Edited 2 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Human Mint]

@Joseph Maynor

Bro wants me to read the red chapter

Maybe he wants me to move faster

I want to smoke please give me a lighter!

[oOo]

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Again, throwing a party and "having fun" is not Orange. The Orange aesthetic is besides the point. What is the driver for letting loose and living for the moment? "Uhhh uhhh the weekend which is a way that we give ourselves a break from the daily grind of capitalism". And what does that break consist of? Letting loose some impulsiveness. Even just standard social gatherings outside work, it's a time where you lay down the "discipline" and let loose a bit.

You don't even need to give it cultural strings, cut the strings, the party balloons fly away and you're just a group of friends getting together to have a fun time. 

We come together through cultural mediums, it doesn't mean the ethos of our characters are constrained by them.

Mediums are common ground; currency... A genre. 

These are lazy categorisations, "a person wearing a suit is smart and sophisticated". 

Edited 2 hours ago by oOo

[Joseph Maynor]

Chapter 11 in the book.

[Joseph Maynor]

Old school rap is actually good and different from Gangsta Rap.

 

[oOo]

11 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Old school rap is actually good and different from Gangsta Rap.

 

Nice!

Americans are so uncultured on their own culture; their divergence leads to a convergent myopic cope in my opinion.

You guys may ask me not to stereotype, but then the irony, right?

Their leader is a reflection of that cope packaged as strength. 

Edited 2 hours ago by oOo

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

The impulsive egocentrism is the core of Red that all individuals go through.

It's quite funny to think about but probably even most Purple societies except maybe the very very beginnings of (proto-)human history have Red in them, it's just it gets shunned and civilized by the community before it can fully take root. It took technological and resource expansion through the agricultural revolution ~10k years ago before the desire for power could be expressed (externally towards "other" tribes). The cognitive machinery was already well-established, it just needed a catalyst to become the new cultural meme.

Edited 1 hour ago by Carl-Richard

[Psychonaut]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Chapter 11 in the book.

Which book?

I feel like some of the music is not red, but actually SD-LightRed, to bring light to the ignorant masses struggling.

[Joseph Maynor]

5 minutes ago, Psychonaut said:

Which book?

I feel like some of the music is not red, but actually SD-LightRed, to bring light to the ignorant masses struggling.

"Spiral Dynamics: Mastering Values, Leadership, and Change" by Don Edward Beck and Christopher C. Cowan