Brasil Elections No sense Results

[PsychedelicEagle]

35 minutes ago, pablo_aka_god said:

I mean, they don't even believe in science, come on guys!

Hahaha exactly. Completely absurd.

[Recursoinominado]

2 hours ago, PsychedelicEagle said:

In my earlier years as a Brazilian voter, I was a right-wing supporter. I was strongly against corruption and against the irresponsible public spending that Brazil's left-wing governments were known for, especially in the early 2010s.

In the 2018 runoff I voted for Bolsonaro, or, better said, against Haddad, who stood in for Lula after Lula was jailed for corruption. Haddad's government plan had roots in communist ideas, and that decided it for me. So did the fact that a win would have given PT a fifth term in a row.

Back then I'd put my center of gravity in Spiral Dynamics at early/middle Orange. I already knew SD, but environmentalism, diversity, social protection and wealth redistribution weren't high priorities for me.

As my personal and spiritual journey went on, I began to see why those things matter, and how many factors feed into complex problems. I also realized that corruption runs deep even when economic liberalism is the ruling agenda. Actualized.org had a big influence here. It showed me the path I needed to take as an individual, from Orange toward Green, and it gave me the confidence to embrace Green ideas even when part of me still resisted.

Yesterday I voted for Lula. More accurately, I voted against the Bolsonaro clan. The corruption and damage that clan would have caused Brazil were too great to ignore: constant attacks on democratic institutions and the elections, the handling of the pandemic (anti-scientific/pre-rational ideas), the environmental damage in the Amazon, and the family's own corruption scandals.

That doesn't mean I'm uncritical of Lula or PT. Many of my old concerns about public spending and corruption still stand. What changed is how I weigh them. Instead of just demonizing one side, I ask which option does less harm to the system as a whole: institutions, people, the future.

From inside Blue or Orange, a vote for Lula can look absurd, as it did to me in the past. Once we pick a side, we rationalize our own views and demonize everyone who disagrees. This is the root of bias. Every time one catches themselves with deep anger or frustration against something, it's a sign to look deeper.

Life gets so much lighter the more our identity grows and expands 🙏

I am glad you have grown! 

[blankisomeone]

7 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

Don't relax yet Bolsonaro refused to concede defeat.  This is a fight of good vs. evil

I'm not worried about that. Flávio's claim that the elections were rigged is completely and totally unfounded, it will go nowhere. But no susprise here, he's just acting like a Bolso.

[Schizophonia]

4 hours ago, pablo_aka_god said:

Couldn't agree more.

I love conservatism and I would vote for a sound right wing party but this radical right wing wave of Trump, Bolsonaro, Milei(In my country, Argentina) is extremely toxic.

I mean, they don't even believe in science, come on guys!

If Lula truly didn't cheat then that means the minor candidates either essentially abstained or voted for Lula even though they are on the right.

A bit like the people who where usually for the GOP in the United States who still voted against Trump in the 3 lasts elections.

Edited 18 hours ago by Schizophonia

[something_else]

9 hours ago, Atb210201 said:

I deconstructed and doubted my beliefs and ideas times and times over and over to reach this place that I am now.

And it has cost me so much and I've paid very heavy prices for this.

So in this sense I can assure you that I've practiced what you are preaching here.

Then why are you unable to form an argument or even a a simple chain of reasoning explaining your point of view?

you just make assertions and pretend you know what everybody else is thinking, and that you know better than them.

[Recursoinominado]

6 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

If Lula truly didn't cheat then that means the minor candidates either essentially abstained or voted for Lula even though they are on the right.

A bit like the people who where usually for the GOP in the United States who still voted against Trump in the 3 lasts elections.

Millions of people who didn't vote in the first turn voted in the second turn.

The left had a wake-up call after the first defeat and started an unprecedented, massive campaign online and on the streets.

A politician called Janones created a channel on WhatsApp with 11 million people, all united in one strategy to boost leftist posts on social media with massive engagement.

Also, many old people who don't normally vote were brought in to vote in the second round for Lula. I am talking about people 70+ years old who aren't obligated to vote anymore but went anyway to vote for Lula because he is that popular. Old people, especially poor old people love Lula because they know and remember what he had done for them, which isn't the case for younger people who was born into a better Brazil because of Lula and they don't know how bad it was before him. 

[Schizophonia]

8 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

Millions of people who didn't vote in the first turn voted in the second turn.

The left had a wake-up call after the first defeat and started an unprecedented, massive campaign online and on the streets.

A politician called Janones created a channel on WhatsApp with 11 million people, all united in one strategy to boost leftist posts on social media with massive engagement.

Also, many old people who don't normally vote were brought in to vote in the second round for Lula. I am talking about people 70+ years old who aren't obligated to vote anymore but went anyway to vote for Lula because he is that popular. Old people, especially poor old people love Lula because they know and remember what he had done for them, which isn't the case for younger people who was born into a better Brazil because of Lula and they don't know how bad it was before him. 

No there were “only” 3 million fewer abstentions in the second round.

[Lews Therin]

17 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

If Lula truly didn't cheat then that means the minor candidates either essentially abstained or voted for Lula even though they are on the right.

A bit like the people who where usually for the GOP in the United States who still voted against Trump in the 3 lasts elections.

It means votes where turned, which is not surprising at all since Lula's campaign kicked into gear in the second round while bolsonaro had one blunder after the other. Not only those who voted for right wingers changed sides, but possibly quite a few people who voted for flavio in the first round. Also, a datafolha poll among people who voted for the 4 other candidates show that 50% planned on voting for flavio, 25% for lula, and the rest would abstain or vote blank, so it is not as if they were all on board with Flavio. Most leaned right, yes, but the bolsonaro name carries a lot of rejection, even from people who hate lula.

In the end it was probably a mix of larger turnout focused on lula, votes being shifted from minor candidates, and right wingers who didn't like seeing flavio show his true self when he got overconfident with the first round and ditched his PR crafted image.