Sadism must be one of the foundational values of God

[LordFall]

It's great to think God is purely all loving but when we think about an omnipotent creator of the universe, sadism must by definition be one of its top traits. 

If one was omnipotent there would be no need to use evolution as a way to evolve consciousness, there would be little to learn if you know everything and have infinite intelligence to calculate everything.

One of the traps that such a being could fall into though would very simply be boredom.

So creating billions of creatures that fight amongst each other can perhaps be proved as one of the foundational divine plans and be based in the enjoyment of watching them fight and kill each other infinitely which can simply be recapped as sadism.

 The idea of a hierarchy of values is key because I'm not claiming sadism is God's primary value—reality could easily be engineered to be far more agonizing if pure malice were the objective— but it clearly sits much higher in the divine design hierarchy than conventional spirituality is comfortable admitting.

Edited 3 hours ago by LordFall

[Willy Phallicus]

Then by all measure God is a pervert too but God is all things as the saying goes.  He even cops to it in the bible when he says he administers both good and evil.  They go hand in hand unfortunately but its just God doing God at the end of the day.

Since God can do whatever he pleases he can just wipe this world away like it never happened (which is easy to do since its not) and have a better dream where life doesn't suck balls.

[aurum]

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

It's great to think God is purely all loving but when we think about an omnipotent creator of the universe, sadism must by definition be one of its top traits. 

Sadism is the wrong frame.

The suffering is more a consequence of the structure of infinity itself, not some sadist kick.

 

[LordFall]

56 minutes ago, aurum said:

Sadism is the wrong frame.

The suffering is more a consequence of the structure of infinity itself, not some sadist kick.

 

We're talking about God here not some mid level manager of reality. If there is so much suffering in the world, it must be because of him otherwise he's not that powerful.

I understand that cause and effect needs consequence to make reality tenable but I think it goes far enough to the point that attributing clear sadism to God is warranted.

1 hour ago, Willy Phallicus said:

Then by all measure God is a pervert too but God is all things as the saying goes.  He even cops to it in the bible when he says he administers both good and evil.  They go hand in hand unfortunately but its just God doing God at the end of the day.

Since God can do whatever he pleases he can just wipe this world away like it never happened (which is easy to do since its not) and have a better dream where life doesn't suck balls.

I think post scarcity and biological immortality is the closest thing to heaven on earth that will come. I just don't understand why humanity's history had to be so painful and bleak to get there. The other easier alternative is that God is not all powerful and has to learn through trial and error which is entirely possible but I think time is more relative than that so I don't really buy it. 

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall

[aurum]

51 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I understand that cause and effect needs consequence to make reality tenable but I think it goes far enough to the point that attributing clear sadism to God is warranted.

You just need an awakening to Goodness / Love / Perfection.

 

[yetineti]

God has control?

God sees a difference in these concepts?

Where is this evident?

Edited 56 minutes ago by yetineti

[Xonas Pitfall]

If you'd want to define it as sadism, it'd probably be more accurate to call it masochism haha.

God is, by definition, All, so there is no "Other" entity to be tortured or murdered.

Sadism is usually defined by inflicting pain or suffering onto another being, but from the "highest" perspective, it's more accurate to call God the ultimate masochist, because It's inflicting all kinds of different emotions onto Itself in order to be Itself and know Itself.

Although masochism wouldn't really be the correct term either, since It doesn't really have a preference for pain over pleasure. It's more like some void that must experience everything.

Edited 41 minutes ago by Xonas Pitfall

[Yimpa]

17 minutes ago, aurum said:

You just need an awakening to Goodness / Love / Perfection.

 

GLP-One

 

@PsychedelicEagle gets it, heheheh

Edited 44 minutes ago by Yimpa

[LordFall]

26 minutes ago, aurum said:

You just need an awakening to Goodness / Love / Perfection.

 

I've had plenty. Don't spiritual bypass me when you get faced with unanswerable questions lol. It's not because you enter states of bliss that life is not suffering for a large proportion of the population and ourselves most of the time.

21 minutes ago, yetineti said:

God has control?

God sees a difference in these concepts?

Where is this evident?

We have control over the suffering we can inflict on others. God by definition should have more control than the average human or it's a moot concept.

God perhaps sees no difference as he incarnates as every being at once but that's what I'm saying. If you're a rapist and raping someone and you don't give a fuck if they're hurting them because you're a detached spiritual being that experiences too much to care about one single perspective then you're not only sadistic but psychopathic lol

12 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

If you'd want to define it as sadism, it'd probably be more accurate to call it masochism haha.

God is, by definition, All, so there is no "Other" entity to be killed, tortured, or murdered.

Sadism is usually defined by inflicting pain or suffering onto another being, but from the "highest" perspective, it's more accurate to call God the ultimate masochist, because It's inflicting all kinds of different emotions onto Itself in order to be Itself and know Itself.

Although masochism wouldn't really be the correct term either, since It doesn't really have a preference for pain over pleasure. It's more like some void that must experience everything.

If I decide to beat you half to death and enjoy my power over you, that's sadism. If a human can be sadistic why not God? 

I feel like you guys are spiritually bypassing hard lol. Go watch combat footage and realize that your little bubble of solipsism has gaping holes in terms of sound reasoning. Welcome to reality. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/

 

Edited 36 minutes ago by LordFall

[aurum]

13 minutes ago, LordFall said:

suffering for a large proportion of the population and ourselves most of the time.

That is NOT sadism.

Sadism is something very specific. It's a mistake to conflate the existence of suffering with sadism being a top value of God.

[yetineti]

26 minutes ago, LordFall said:

We have control over the suffering we can inflict on others. God by definition should have more control than the average human or it's a moot concept.

By what definition? Is power the same thing as control?

Quote

God perhaps sees no difference as he incarnates as every being at once but that's what I'm saying. If you're a rapist and raping someone and you don't give a fuck if they're hurting them because you're a detached spiritual being that experiences too much to care about one single perspective then you're not only sadistic but psychopathic lol

Would that not be you, then, not God?

Edited 12 minutes ago by yetineti

[Xonas Pitfall]

28 minutes ago, LordFall said:

If I decide to beat you half to death and enjoy my power over you, that's sadism. If a human can be sadistic why not God? 

I feel like you guys are spiritually bypassing hard lol. Go watch combat footage and realize that your little bubble of solipsism has gaping holes in terms of sound reasoning. Welcome to reality. 

We aren't spiritually bypassing. We are correcting a limited definition.

If you want to try to define or describe God, God is the ultimate masochist and sadist, lover and enemy, creator and destroyer, giver and taker, merciful and wrathful, friend and adversary, source of pleasure and source of suffering.

But these descriptions only make sense from the perspective of finite beings like us.

Ultimately, God is defined as that which has no other. God is all. Therefore, concepts such as pleasure and suffering cannot be used as something being done to another being, because there is no "other" separate from God. Everything is within God.

This is why terms such as sadist and masochist lose their meaning at that level. Those concepts require a distinction between the one experiencing something and the other toward whom it is directed.

From the finite human perspective, however, God can be all of it, depending on how your ego is treated throughout this life, both by itself and by the environment around it.

Quote

Welcome to reality. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/

I could equally say that this proves God is incredibly masochistic, and that masochism is a "foundational" value of God, because God is also the person being killed, slapped, and dismembered, as well as every person who has ever experienced violence in combat.

But this would still be a limited perspective that needs to be expanded. That is precisely why we are challenging you.

Edited 7 minutes ago by Xonas Pitfall

[yetineti]

I see more psychological bypassing through intellectualization on this forum than spiritual bypassing.

Spiritual bypassing is pretty obvious. Someone adopts a spiritual framework that lets them avoid an uncomfortable emotional or practical reality.

But you can do essentially the same thing in the opposite direction: intellectualize everything, reduce disagreements to psychological explanations, analyze the other person’s ego, trauma, attachment, development, etc., and never actually engage with what they’re saying.

That brings up a further issue where disagreement itself can become evidence of the diagnosis.

Both can become ways of explaining something away instead of confronting it.