Gen Z Women Prefer Gay Men Over Straight Men

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@LordFall I had to remove a lot of unconscious put downs, condescension, trolling and turd rhetoric I picked up from hardcore WoW raiding and Arena. It might not be the case with you. I could be projecting my own shit.

I operated from the mode that that sort of rhetoric was good for me, hardened me and made me still pay attention to objective facts despite the sledging (thick skin). So I figured others would respond how I did. I was so wrong 🤣 just because I could tolerate being told to fuck off, or get in the kitchen - didn't mean others would respond how I did 🥹

Hard wakeup call that I can't just facts and logic my way through. I had to learn to relate to the person first, ask them about their experience and meaning, values - so they felt seen. People became remarkably pliable and open to my points as soon as they felt understood.

Learned that from an ENTJ in business who was a fucking juggernaut at convincing others. I use that relating tool with all my contractors so we keep a tight knight group of trusted subbies we take from project to project to maintain quality/consistent outcomes in construction.

Edited 23 minutes ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[yetineti]

59 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Sure, I appreciate the compliment on my project. You're a smart guy and tough to argue with lol 

I do think this is good discourse, if we have only pleasant chit chat at the end of the day how are we supposed to have impactful conversations that provoke real change?  

I do think it's important to qualify our track record and put some real weight to what we say. Dating is a bit more nuanced of a niche but if we're to have a conversation on business, career or even health and nutrition then it would become more obvious why the source of the information matters just as much as the quality of the argument. 

My country Canada is in a trade war against the most powerful country in the world at the moment, I assure you the Canadian administration has not given me a call to ask for my opinion on their tariff policy. 

They messed up though, the fools! I'm waiting for that call any day... You see my point right, that was my insight on relevance. I'm not very relevant in that conflict and that's fine. Over the next decade I will put time to work on my poltical connections and network and perhaps the next prime minister 10 years from now will genuinely give me a call to ask for my take on stuff. For now, we chat about it in the politics section but if someone that was more experienced than me in those fields said so to qualify their post it would change how I approach the conversation with them and how much I weigh their opinions vs looking at the multiple PHD award winners in the comment section of the average IG reel or reddit post for example. 

Questioning someone on their credibility and asking them to put context behind what they're saying is not inherently an insult nor should even be taken as a direct confrontation. I can do it in that way if the tone of conversation is already aggressive, I don't mind the heat but the intent is not to be belligerent; it's to have high quality discourse on a self-development forum. 

That's a fair point, I'm not running an ad here though. I'm genuinely having an honest discussion. If someone pays me for coaching then I take more time to understand their perspective before I make a protocol for them as that's the proper format for it that type of engagement. 

@Natasha Tori Maru You do have a point that I can be more uncouth than I should probably be and I do own that. I will just say I think if we are trying to have serious discussions instead of circle jerks then we need to be precise with what we're trying to do and be willing to open up about our issues and track record if we want accountability or even accurate discussing without the status posturing that anonymous discussions turn into.

@Willy Phallicus Thanks for taking the time to understand my perspective man. I think you made some good points. 

Now that’s a response.

Not to say you were engaging dishonestly before, but this is easier to answer because you’re focusing on your own perspective instead of telling me what’s wrong with me.

What @Natasha Tori Maru said is fair, and I want to own my part too. I’m an ENFP 5w4, and authenticity, understanding, and intellectual honesty matter a lot to me. When I feel an important point is being missed, I can become intense and introduce context that feels personal or out of place. I can see how that throws people off, and I’m not claiming every inference I make is correct.

Maybe next time, if you ask me for more context, I’ll provide it directly instead of responding only to the interpretation I think is being made. We both have thick skin, but we can still end up talking past each other.

If I were giving dating advice and you wanted to ask how many people I’d dated, that would be fair. But that wasn’t what I was doing here. I was making a meta point about how we were handling disagreement and about the trade-offs being left out. My own experience doesn’t make that point universally true, but it does give me a basis for recognizing those dynamics. I’ve made enough mistakes in relationships and friendships to have a pretty decent sample size of my own failures lol.

That’s probably the part I haven’t explained well. I may never build businesses or communities at the scale you do, @LordFall, and I’m not pretending that understanding them is the same as building them. But my strength is noticing patterns, connecting different parts of a system, and protecting the values and cognitive bandwidth that let me think clearly.

Everyone develops some kind of mastery. Mine is understanding what things create, what they cost, and whether they’re worth the bandwidth they consume. That can make me seem abstract or off-topic, but it’s also why I was making the point.