Challenging Leo on women

[LordFall]

Got it. If dating is not an important part of your life then yeah I think spending time on it is not that useful. For me, it unlocked incredible adventures, great FWBs, and real abundance that I wouldn't trade for anything. 

A lot of times when I have conversations with other people it seems like their scarcity impacts their judgement in very obvious ways and they come to conclusions that are obviously false from the perspective of someone that's had more sex and dating experience. 

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Joshe you sound like you aren't afflicted with the "should" syndrome in general, though. Most people love that toxic fuel ⛽ 

[Joshe]

20 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Got it. If dating is not an important part of your life then yeah I think spending time on it is not that useful. For me, it unlocked incredible adventures, great FWBs, and real abundance that I wouldn't trade for anything. 

I think you could have gotten the same thing without pickup. 

20 minutes ago, LordFall said:

A lot of times when I have conversations with other people it seems like their scarcity impacts their judgement in very obvious ways and they come to conclusions that are obviously false from the perspective of someone that's had more sex and dating experience. 

I slept with over 50 women and have had around 10 girlfriends, IIRC. I stopped playing the game because it was no longer worth it. I could be out here getting a girl a week if I wanted, but I don't wanna live that life because I've already done it and the thrill is gone. I've had sex probably 5k times. That tends to burn the candle out, lol. At least for me. So, if you're implying I'm speaking from scarcity, it's not the case. 

Your dick would get hard looking at the trophy collection I deleted years ago, lol.

Edited 1 hour ago by Joshe

[Joshe]

9 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Joshe you sound like you aren't afflicted with the "should" syndrome in general, though. Most people love that toxic fuel ⛽ 

Yeah, that's worth thinking about: toxic fuel is better than no fuel, lol. 

[Joseph Maynor]

5 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

We’re pointing out the unfalsifiable ideological tactics that allow more toxic ideologies to become self-propagating.

The question this raises in my mind is to what extent can dating be reduced to a science, which seems to go too far in the opposite direction IMO.  

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Yeah, that's worth thinking about: toxic fuel is better than no fuel, lol. 

Hard agree. I would argue it's almost necessary prior to discovering the environmentally safe stuff. Usually the healthy fuel discovery is a serendipitous thing while engaging in toxic fuel consumption - tangential discussion though 🤐

[LordFall]

@Joshe To me I find new ways to benefit from social dynamics continuously. It's helped me do business deals as well as throw events and build my communities. I don't share that same jaded view of PUA as the average person. It's helped me get the romantic and social life that I wanted and thus I will keep vouching for it. 

I also think it helps with building an intentional high quality dating life. To summarize it as being able to sleep with random women left and right is not a true summary of the potential of it. A lot of dating strategy revolves around identifying your insecurities that lead to emotional triggers and point towards deficiencies in your overall esteem as a human. Solving this leads to you engaging with women and others in your full potential and being able to create the relationships that you want. Both with attractive women but also with high value men. 

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall

[Joshe]

@LordFall I gotcha. That makes sense if that's how you prefer to live. I myself don't enjoy seeing people based on their value to me. Not that there's anything wrong at all with wanting to cultivate a high-value network. I just don't get into it. I can spot a transactional motherfucker from a mile away and I get that "ick". I like connection as an end in itself. Maybe there's a bit of naivety in that sentiment regarding worldly success, but it's just my natural preference. Always has been. 

Edited 52 minutes ago by Joshe

[LordFall]

I think that philosophy makes sense if you don't run any projects. Try hiring people or running events, and you'll see the average man is a liability to himself and others. The average dude can barely get somewhere on time, let alone provide any sort of utility to the environment once he does.

Also mate you can connect to any human being on earth, connection is not exactly scarce. If you want high quality connections in your life, in my experience the best way to achieve that is to find out what you truly value and set firm boundaries that naturally raise your standards for who you spend your time with. 

Edited 41 minutes ago by LordFall

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Joshe said:

IDK why this is so hard to see. It seems like easily attainable knowledge.

Maybe pickup is coming around to this though? I've heard Leo say something like "women aren't driven by beauty because they don't need it", or something like that. But it seems like they're still missing something, else they'd drop pickup. I think it's the chad wound. 

I think the logic is like, "My strongest and most obvious feelings that draw me towards women are about women's beauty. Therefore, beauty must be the determining factor for if a woman is able to attract a good partner for a satisfying relationship."

Then, there's also the tendency to project the male dating strategies and men's concerns onto the female dating strategy and women's concerns, when they work quite differently.

And because men are attracted to women... and have to use attraction as their primary mating strategy.... it may feel like attraction itself is the name of the game for both genders. And they may not pay much attention to selection as an effective mating strategy at all.

It would be like if male birds were looking at female birds like, "Female birds aren't as colorful as us... and they don't do the mating dance as well as we do. It must negatively impact their ability to find a male bird that's willing to mate with them. So, they really need to step up their game and prove to us male birds that they can dance, otherwise they're going to be mate-less."

It may not occur to the male bird that the female bird just sitting on the branch and having bland and muted colors IS the superior mating strategy for female birds... and that focusing too much on dancing and pretty colors as a mating strategy would just get in the way of her mating goals.

So, while self-beautification is certainly a common part of being a woman... it should never be the primary mating strategy.

It's important that a woman's beauty is for herself as something she pour into herself... and not as a bargaining chip/mating dance to prove herself worthy of male attraction. 

A relatively abundant amount of male attention is meant to be a given for women... not as something that needs cultivating.

The abundance serves the function of enabling women to be more highly selective with mates and weeding out the "male birds with insufficient mating dances". So that the female birds can have the support of a male bird, so that she can be drab and lay on top of eggs all day.

Edited 29 minutes ago by Emerald

[Joshe]

2 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It would be like if male birds were looking at female birds like, "Female birds aren't as colorful as us... and they don't do the mating dance as well as we do. It must negatively impact their ability to find a male bird that's willing to mate with them. So, they really need to step up their game and prove to us male birds that they can dance, otherwise they're going to be mate-less."

😂 Fuckin great!

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Joshe said:

😂 Fuckin great!

 

[Joshe]

12 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I think that philosophy makes sense if you don't run any projects. Try hiring people or running events and you'll see the average man is a liability to himself and others. The average dude can barely get somewhere on time let alone provide any sort of utility to the environment once he does.

Oh yeah, I totally see the importance of it if you're out in the world actually trying to herd people toward a cause. But that's the main reason I don't do that. Because it necessitates being in environments and around people I dislike. I can find other ways to be impactful, around the types of people I actually like. 

12 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Also mate you can connect to any human being on earth, connection is not exactly scarce. If you want high quality connections in your life, in my experience the best way to achieve that is to find out what you truly value and put high boundaries around it that end up in you having quite high standards for who you spend your time around. 

I don't necessarily want high quality connections, but I enjoy them when they happen. I'm not chasing after them, the same way I'm not chasing after women. If it happens, it happens. 

I don't want to prove anything to the world at large. 

Edited 31 minutes ago by Joshe

[LordFall]

9 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Oh yeah, I totally see the importance of it if you're out in the world actually trying to herd people toward a cause. But that's the main reason I don't do that. Because it necessitates being in environments and around people I dislike. I can find other ways to be impactful, around the types of people I actually like. 

I don't necessarily want high quality connections, but I enjoy them when they happen. I'm not chasing after them, the same way I'm not chasing after women. If it happens, it happens. 

I don't want to prove anything to the world at large. 

And that brings the whole thing full circle.

That fundamental contrast is why I'm such an advocate for social dynamics, game, and proactive network building. It leaves you with the power to deliberately dictate your reality, instead of being stuck in a passive, reactive state hoping the world delivers what you want.

Two totally different approaches to life.

Edited 22 minutes ago by LordFall

[AION]

@Emerald you are only looking at it from the female imperative. And I do get it. But I’m not a woman. So I have different imperatives. Sometimes I just want to get laid. And she wants to get a relationship. If I tell her the truth what I want she wouldn’t even entertain me plus it would be insulting. I kind of get why you are teaching women these strategies but you are just teaching men to lie to get what they want. Because truth is punished and falsehood is rewarded.