Challenging Leo on women

[Schizophonia]

3 hours ago, Asayake said:

A woman cant get pregnant with multiple guys at once, evolution favors that the child has the best chances of survival, if a woman gets with a predator who makes her pregnant then tags out, historically the child would have poor survival & thriving probability. 
 

Getting reproduction is easy for women, finding a good father isnt.

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

In this case the predator is a toxic man or a low value man pretending to not be one. Even for a man, association with low-value men is ruinous as they literally don't offer value to your life and nothing is really neutral so often times they really lech value from you until you're drained to the point of exhaustion or worse.

For a woman it's the same thing except if she makes the error of getting pregnant by such a man, her life will now be disastrously impacted compared to having found a reliable man that she can count on.  

Just because a woman is less attractive doesn't mean she is any less likely to be a potential victim of a sexual predator.
On the contrary an attractive woman is more likely to attain a higher social status and when you have a higher status you are better protected against predators.

The fact is that when you are more attractive whether man or woman you have a better chance of reproducing and reproducing with people who are themselves and more attractive.

It is true that what is considered an advantage and thus ultimately attractive depends on the environment; however behind this "left-wing relativistic post-Darwinism" there is also a coping mechanism, a shadow.

That is what bothered me and probably bothers her and makes her metaphor shaky, as it is forced in order to address a psychical contradiction;  believe.

 

[LordFall]

That claim doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Highly attractive women deal with far higher volumes of opportunistic, disingenuous attention and deceptive tactics—which is precisely the predatory dynamic being discussed.

Asserting that higher attractiveness automatically shields someone from being targeted ignores basic filtering realities. Until you can point to actual data showing high-visibility targets face fewer predatory interactions, dismissing direct female observation as "coping" is just projecting your own assumptions.

Edited Thursday at 06:34 PM by LordFall

[Emerald]

7 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Just because a woman is less attractive doesn't mean she is any less likely to be a potential victim of a sexual predator.

That's not exactly true.

While a less attractive woman can absolutely be targeted by a predatory man... attractive women are FAR more likely to be targeted simply because they draw more attention in general.

Being an attractive woman can be a bit like being the goose that lays the golden eggs. EVERYONE and their father wants a piece of you.

Also, predatory men are often very misogynistic and deeply resentful of beautiful women's power over them. So, there can also be a revenge driver that bitter men can have SPECIFICALLY for very beautiful women.

That's why attractive women have to be EXTRA good at sorting and shielding their time, energy, and attention from those who just want to use her beauty for their own selfish purposes.

It's also why women who have been assaulted can tend to dress down and gain weight... as attractiveness can feel and be very unsafe. It's genuinely safer to look plainer as a woman, as it draws less attention to you.

Honestly, think about who's most likely to be sexually exploited and brought into the sex trade... young attractive women without a solid social circle.

Also, when it comes to predation... it doesn't necessarily always mean being predated upon by some other species trying to eat you.

For humans, there are common predatory social dynamics where a sizable minority of men will try to extract value from a woman without any care about her wants, needs, safety, or anything else.

As apex predators... the main threat to the women of this species doesn't come from outside of the species, it comes from the men of the species.

And attractiveness doesn't keep a woman safe at all. If anything, women who are more Feminine and attractive can tend to be less respected than a plainer woman who's more Masculine.

That's always what I experienced anyway. 

The more Masculine you look and behave, the more respect or indifference you get from those kinds of men.

The more Feminine you look and behave, the more those men see you as an object and want to exploit you for their own purposes. They see you more as a symbol for their own validity or sex drive than as a person. 

[AION]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

That's not exactly true.

While a less attractive woman can absolutely be targeted by a predatory man... attractive women are FAR more likely to be targeted simply because they draw more attention in general.

Being an attractive woman can be a bit like being the goose that lays the golden eggs. EVERYONE and their father wants a piece of you.

Also, predatory men are often very misogynistic and deeply resentful of beautiful women's power over them. So, there can also be a revenge driver that bitter men can have SPECIFICALLY for very beautiful women.

That's why attractive women have to be EXTRA good at sorting and shielding their time, energy, and attention from those who just want to use her beauty for their own selfish purposes.

It's also why women who have been assaulted can tend to dress down and gain weight... as attractiveness can feel and be very unsafe. It's genuinely safer to look plainer as a woman, as it draws less attention to you.

Honestly, think about who's most likely to be sexually exploited and brought into the sex trade... young attractive women without a solid social circle.

Also, when it comes to predation... it doesn't necessarily always mean being predated upon by some other species trying to eat you.

For humans, there are common predatory social dynamics where a sizable minority of men will try to extract value from a woman without any care about her wants, needs, safety, or anything else.

As apex predators... the main threat to the women of this species doesn't come from outside of the species, it comes from the men of the species.

And attractiveness doesn't keep a woman safe at all. If anything, women who are more Feminine and attractive can tend to be less respected than a plainer woman who's more Masculine.

That's always what I experienced anyway. 

The more Masculine you look and behave, the more respect or indifference you get from those kinds of men.

The more Feminine you look and behave, the more those men see you as an object and want to exploit you for their own purposes. They see you more as a symbol for their own validity or sex drive than as a person. 

Hot women always have abusive violent exes while those violent aggressive men are only a small percentage of the population of men. Most men aren’t like that. Most men are nice guys. I have tons of good guy friends who are good men with very good jobs. But they aren’t picked. Yesterday I dated a hot girl and she too had abusive bfs. She didn’t want to sleep with me on the first date. Only when I started showing more dominance she opened up, showed signs of attraction and we had a great time. Perhaps one of the best dates in my life. I think most guys want to be nice but it is not what is being rewarded. Most guys just accept their fate and stay incels. 
 

If you are a nice guy you get treated like shit. Most guys accept this behavior from women. But the ones who don’t they create this strong frame and sometimes they go too far and become a dick and become aggressive which is an unfortunate side effect.  
 

I’m not going to blame the opposite sex like you do but I think women condition men to be the way they are. I think there are good reasons why hot women are the way they are. And I think there are good reasons why the men who fuck the hot women are the way they are. 

[LordFall]

42 minutes ago, AION said:

Hot women always have abusive violent exes while those violent aggressive men are only a small percentage of the population of men. Most men aren’t like that. Most men are nice guys. I have tons of good guy friends who are good men with very good jobs. But they aren’t picked. Yesterday I dated a hot girl and she too had abusive bfs. She didn’t want to sleep with me on the first date. Only when I started showing more dominance she opened up, showed signs of attraction and we had a great time. Perhaps one of the best dates in my life. I think most guys want to be nice but it is not what is being rewarded. Most guys just accept their fate and stay incels. 
 

If you are a nice guy you get treated like shit. Most guys accept this behavior from women. But the ones who don’t they create this strong frame and sometimes they go too far and become a dick and become aggressive which is an unfortunate side effect.  
 

I’m not going to blame the opposite sex like you do but I think women condition men to be the way they are. I think there are good reasons why hot women are the way they are. And I think there are good reasons why the men who fuck the hot women are the way they are. 

A lot of these "nice guys" have many toxic traits under the surface. It's quite rare for a man or human being in general to have worked on being attractive to the other sex, have their finances in order and have done enough shadow work to not be a toxic individual.

I've met some very nice and caring people who after having known for a while had some nasty character traits. The psyche is quite deep my friend, be careful not to judge a book by its cover. 

[AION]

26 minutes ago, LordFall said:

A lot of these "nice guys" have many toxic traits under the surface. It's quite rare for a man or human being in general to have worked on being attractive to the other sex, have their finances in order and have done enough shadow work to not be a toxic individual.

I've met some very nice and caring people who after having known for a while had some nasty character traits. The psyche is quite deep my friend, be careful not to judge a book by its cover. 

You don’t know my friends though. They don’t have toxic traits. They are genuinely nice and very caring. Family orientated too.  I never experienced toxic behavior from them in my friendship with them. 

[LordFall]

25 minutes ago, AION said:

You don’t know my friends though. They don’t have toxic traits. They are genuinely nice and very caring. Family orientated too.  I never experienced toxic behavior from them in my friendship with them. 

Sure that perhaps the case and hard to argue.If that is the case they should have no problem learning some game, taking some good pics and crushing on their dating life.

If they have a passive attitude towards dating that's on them. 

[Joseph Maynor]

You don't want to be in a relationship with someone who is wacked out.  

[AION]

2 hours ago, LordFall said:

Sure that perhaps the case and hard to argue.If that is the case they should have no problem learning some game, taking some good pics and crushing on their dating life.

If they have a passive attitude towards dating that's on them. 

That is what one would think. They have university degrees so learning some basic game is no problem but it is. On university one learns about IQ but game is more about EQ. Totally different skill set. It is their own responsibility though. I won’t go out of my way to teach it. I only give out warnings here and there that youth is wasted on the young of some sorts.  
 

From my experience these guys don’t even need game. They need to work on confidence, self concept, how to present oneself , and basic social skills. 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:19 AM by AION

[Joseph Maynor]

@Emerald  I would love to hear more from you regarding Jungian psychology on here.

[LordFall]

7 hours ago, AION said:

That is what one would think. They have university degrees so learning some basic game is no problem but it is. On university one learns about IQ but game is more about EQ. Totally different skill set. It is their own responsibility though. I won’t go out of my way to teach it. I only give out warnings here and there that youth is wasted on the young of some sorts.  
 

From my experience these guys don’t even need game. They need to work on confidence, self concept, how to present oneself , and basic social skills. 

 

 A lot of guys have egos and think that game is beneath them.

So you're sort of proving my point. You know people only so much until you get intimate with them. People that have low confidence and self-concept tend to be bitter and resentful and it comes up in all kinds of unpredictable ways.

That's why the adage is be careful of people that can't attract women. There is basically always something nasty beyond the surface otherwise it would be a self-correction problem. Women are not that complicated. 

[AION]

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

 A lot of guys have egos and think that game is beneath them.

So you're sort of proving my point. You know people only so much until you get intimate with them. People that have low confidence and self-concept tend to be bitter and resentful and it comes up in all kinds of unpredictable ways.

That's why the adage is be careful of people that can't attract women. There is basically always something nasty beyond the surface otherwise it would be a self-correction problem. Women are not that complicated. 

 never thought about it like that but now you tell me about it, there is always something fishy about them.. recently I learned in dating you are either a victim or a fucker .. and victims of life rarely get pity sex. 

Edited 16 hours ago by AION

[Schizophonia]

@Emerald The people who want to rape/kill you because you are attractive are an extreme minority like Ted Bundy.

Incels are no more likely to be rapists than anyone else; killing and raping are matters of sociopathy.

 

[Majed]

@Schizophonia

34 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Incels are no more likely to be rapists than anyone else; killing and raping are matters of sociopathy.

Saying incels aren't more likely to rape is like saying poor people aren't more likely to steal. 

[Schizophonia]

15 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Schizophonia

Saying incels aren't more likely to rape is like saying poor people aren't more likely to steal. 

No because the desire to have a relationship, to cuddle and kiss blablabla has nothing to do with the desire to rape, which is a sadistic delirium.

Just because both involve the body doesn't mean that a "lack" of one will cause a lack of the other. If you really wanted sex there are escort girls.

[Schizophonia]

@AION I know plenty of girls (and pretty ones) who only want guys who are particularly nice.

The more “lazy” a girl is/the more she is not interested in anything, the more she will give in to a coercive person.

Edited 14 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

@Emerald The people who want to rape/kill you because you are attractive are an extreme minority like Ted Bundy.

Incels are no more likely to be rapists than anyone else; killing and raping are matters of sociopathy.

 

I'm not just talking about serial murderers.

Probably half or more of people have been in a relationship with a toxic and abusive partner. And it's more often women who are on the receiving end of abuse... though many men also experience abuse.

The statistics are the 1 in 3 women have been in an abusive relationship... and 1 in 4 men have been in an abusive relationship.

So, when I'm talking about being predatory... I'm not just talking about the extremes. I'm talking about the mundane guy who will drag a woman's life down into the ground.

And for an attractive woman, she will attract a lot more opportunistic men who are just trying to prove themselves good enough by getting her validation. They won't actually be interested in her.

Honestly, probably around half or more people are going to be terrible partners. And women (and especially beautiful women) have to ruthlessly sort out those options... or she'll end up with a partner who will be a drain on her life.

And that's not the extremes like serial murderers... as serial murderers are rare.

It's more like avoidants, bread-crumbers, moochers, guys who can't keep a job, emotionally abusive guys, physically abusive guys (this sometimes actually does end in murder... it just doesn't make the national news), guys with anger issues, impulsive guys, misogynists, cheaters, gamblers, addicts, petty criminals, sex pests, beauty diggers, immature guys, irresponsible guys, dead-beat dads, power abusers, and other common types of negative partners.

And these are very mundane examples. Most women have had a relationship with a guy who has qualities on this list. And probably half or more of guys fall into the categories on this list. (Half of women are often shitty too, just sometimes in other ways)

So, women are very wise to be ruthless in their selectivity.

And attractive women are especially visible to men who want to use her for sex, status, and validation without caring about her. And this tends to lead to many of her "leads" to getting into a relationship simply looking to extract value... and not just have a good relationship.

So, the more beautiful a woman is, the more she needs to be able to protect her time, energy, and focus from predatory guys.

[Jirh]

@Emerald

I think that puts too much responsibility on women, especially the younger ones, which they can't fulfill even if they wanted to.

If it is true that half people are abusive terrible partners, then anyone has 50% chance of being abused whenever they enter a relationship.

The solution you're providing makes it a catch-22 situation, where you can't be discerning until you're abused, and you're almost guaranteed to be abused.

I think this is more of a systemic issue of the family unit and the larger society where selection is made to be an independent choice of an isolated woman. But most women aren't isolated from their families and social circles. So the issue is much less prevalent than it seems. And the solution is not really applicable until the woman is like in her mid 30s.