Stop letting woman use you

[oOo]

1 hour ago, Olaf said:

 probably also the reason why you are drawn to a forum which is kinda male dominated 

Is that a joke? 

"Male dominated". Sounds like an oxymoron.

There's more yielding and baby talk than matured dominant masculinity.

Men flock to a forum to have their own spiritual immaturity appeased rather than maturely nourished and challenged responsibly.

This place reflects just a TikTok reel of useless commentary, wasting men's lives away, facilitating untamed belief into the ether of absurdity rather than untamed sovereign action that demands testability. It's the absence of testability that leads to the absence of genuine intelligent conversing and passing on of wisdom across the forum. Instead we get Orks without the masculine drive and courage to be an ork. 

So we need all the strong women we can get on this forum @Natasha Tori Maru. They pickup the slack for what most of the men here call "too much work and pain", while not realising they're acting as the mother these men never mourned the loss of in their existence to fill the void with the sustenance of life. Calling any masculine energy that remains dormant waiting to be unleashed further than the frog yelps most presently expel from their societally tamed throats.

We need strong women being women though, not babysitting responsibilities that the men on here are meant to own solely unto themselves. 

Going back to your use of the phrase "male dominated" @Olaf, shit, I'm scared more of a domesticated guinea pig. 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by oOo

[Natasha Tori Maru]

20 minutes ago, Joshe said:

I interpreted that you were trying to bring this advantage to my awareness when you said "I think you have been really well socialised and have sisters yeah?", as if it was lost on me. It is a good point, so sorry if I misinterpreted, but I wasn't sure how else to interpret it.

I actually just realized I may have been misinterpreting you a lot. Maybe you're just adding caveats that I've compressed, because I compress a lot, but I'm not sure because we have history where your responses clearly assumed ignorance on my part. Unless I've misinterpreted those instances or took one or two occasions as your default response pattern to me. 

I'm genuinely sorry if I've misinterpreted you. I'm just not sure that I have.

I think I am more pondering and thinking and less proposing an argument - or refuting you  Many of my responses are "hey, you triggered this pattern match or thought!" then I post.

The sisters part - I vaguely VAGUELY recall maybe you said that - but I cannot remember if it was you or another member (who was banned, forgot his name, but he had really good interesting views, I think his avatar was a jester). So I was hoping you would correct me by affirming/denying. And the assumption there was that if you did confirm you had a sister - this would explain why these social dynamics / mechanisms with women (and outside of the romance domain) are just totally obvious to you

I tend to be cautious of premature closure - which is sort of the opposite axis that you take, maybe? Steer toward closure + find the pattern across domains. I do that to for sure, but I like to pull back so I don't get stuck in frame lock (which I tended to fall into 4/5 years ago a lot). This isn't so good because my pondering and questioning can, if not put forth with clean, neutral rhetoric, can come across as me trying to rip apart someone's epistemology (and this can be deeply distressing to some people, so I am practicing being extra cautious). I think I often probe really deep trying to come up with heuristics I can apply - and even steal others heuristics they have developed.

I think many times you have replied to something I didn't say - but could be inferred. I have done the same with you as well! I find the continued dialogue an unusual exercise in Ni vs Ni that is almost amplifying weaknesses in different ways. Maybe functioning like a mirror. A god awefull house of mirrors warped one LOL

I am often not even trying to win. I don't need closure. But this can be infuriating to some  

Another factor is: my statements can sometimes be vague and when questioned or engaged they become clearer in meaning as I go (this isn't intentional, something I am trying to work on as well). Often troubles can be simply reduced down to the need for the question "what do you mean by that?"

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Joshe]

25 minutes ago, Olaf said:

if you are insecure and see yourself as low value, someone not responding means you got rejected.

I don't think you have to see yourself as low value to feel the sting of rejection. I think the highest value person on earth can feel it and the sting of rejection is natural.

The solution isn't to mask it with thoughts of your value. The solution is to train your interpretations upfront, so the sting never lands. Automatized antecedent-focused reappraisal isn't suppression. It actually prevents the negative appraisal from landing because you've used logic and reason to see the reality of the situation more clearly, and have found the wise relationship to it. Recited appraisals you don't believe never automatize, and you just end up faking it. "I'm high value" as an affirmation can't cut it, IMO. 

[LordFall]

13 minutes ago, Joshe said:

I don't think you have to see yourself as low value to feel the sting of rejection. I think the highest value person on earth can feel it and the sting of rejection is natural.

The solution isn't to mask it with thoughts of your value. The solution is to train your interpretations upfront, so the sting never lands. Automatized antecedent-focused reappraisal isn't suppression. It actually prevents the negative appraisal from landing because you've used logic and reason to see the reality of the situation more clearly, and have found the wise relationship to it. Recited appraisals you don't believe never automatize, and you just end up faking it. "I'm high value" as an affirmation can't cut it, IMO. 

How much you get hurt in rejection is also a function of your abundance. A lot of people are not in control of their dating life and feel like quality partners are something that happens to them every few years instead of something they can attract on their own so often times they are a devastated by rejection.

For a person with more abundance of dating partners rejection is more like disappointment you'll forget about in an hour rather than something that genuinely hurts you. 

[Joshe]

6 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I think I am more pondering and thinking and less proposing an argument - or refuting you  Many of my responses are "hey, you triggered this pattern match or thought!" then I post.

I gotcha. I'll keep that in mind. 

7 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

The sisters part - I vaguely VAGUELY recall maybe you said that - but I cannot remember if it was you or another member (who was banned, forgot his name, but he had really good interesting views, I think his avatar was a jester). So I was hoping you would correct me by affirming/denying. And the assumption there was that if you did confirm you had a sister - this would explain why these social dynamics / mechanisms with women (and outside of the romance domain) are just totally obvious to you

Yeah, you're remembering right. You, me and him had a convo talking about sisters and you were talking about your brother. The lee joker or something like that. I didn't know he got banned, wtf? 

13 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

This isn't so good because my pondering and questioning can, if not put forth with clean, neutral rhetoric, can come across as me trying to rip apart someone's epistemology (and this can be deeply distressing to some people, so I am practicing being extra cautious). I think I often probe really deep trying to come up with heuristics I can apply - and even steal others heuristics they have developed.

Haha, I see. That actually makes sense. I actually don't mind deep probes at all. I'll try to keep in mind this is a big driver for you, and see your probes as mining more so than critical audits, lol. 

18 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I think many times you have replied to something I didn't say - but could be inferred. I have done the same with you as well! I find the continued dialogue an unusual exercise in Ni vs Ni that is almost amplifying weaknesses in different ways. Maybe functioning like a mirror. A god awefull house of mirrors warped one LOL

Lol, yes, I've thought about this too. Like, is this some sort of strange Ni-Ni dynamic? Fucking weird, lol. 

[Olaf]

@oOo by male dominated, I mean many males, not that the "males" dominate the forum, atleast that wasn't my intention. 

[Joshe]

35 minutes ago, LordFall said:

How much you get hurt in rejection is also a function of your abundance. A lot of people are not in control of their dating life and feel like quality partners are something that happens to them every few years instead of something they can attract on their own so often times they are a devastated by rejection.

For a person with more abundance of dating partners rejection is more like disappointment you'll forget about in an hour rather than something that genuinely hurts you. 

That's true. But what I'm saying is it doesn't have to be this way. One can use logic and reason to see the truth of things such that healthy reappraisals replace the less accurate, unhealthy ones. I'm not sure this is accessible to everyone or what the challenges might be, as it came natural to me early on, but I think it's largely accessible and just takes practice. That said, it seems easy to do wrong, so I'm actually not sure.

Still, automatized antecedent-focused reappraisal (such a mouthful, lol) is probably one of the best self-help technologies that exists. I just came across the term today. It kinda seems like Psycho-cybernetics adjacent but pointed at situations instead of self-image. 

Edited 31 minutes ago by Joshe

[Natasha Tori Maru]

50 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Yeah, you're remembering right. You, me and him had a convo talking about sisters and you were talking about your brother. The lee joker or something like that. I didn't know he got banned, wtf? 

That's it! Yes and that was the user @theleelajoker

50 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Lol, yes, I've thought about this too. Like, is this some sort of strange Ni-Ni dynamic? Fucking weird, lol. 

While I can never be certain regarding MBTI - it is always INTJ's that I clash with on some fundamental, unnamed level. It feels like I agree but don't agree, I see but don't see. My Dad is an INTJ also and works with me *shudder* 

When I clash with him it is literally the immovable object meeting the unstoppable force. We only reconcile after stepping away, both of us going meta regarding the arguement and our own thinking, then re-approaching with either a new perspective or one of us becoming willing to toss theirs. Both of us are relentlessly persistent which can be great when applied to a permanent relationship (provided we can resolve conflict). I have become a lot better with resolution... But not necessarily lowering conflict 😅 

Needless to say I think it the Ni Ni clash can be a great avenue for growth

 

Edited 11 minutes ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Joshe]

54 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

So I was hoping you would correct me by affirming/denying. And the assumption there was that if you did confirm you had a sister - this would explain why these social dynamics / mechanisms with women (and outside of the romance domain) are just totally obvious to you

Yes, I grew up with my mom and my sister and my aunts, and my sister had many attractive friends and I hung out with them often. I even had all girl friend groups in school where I was the only guy in the friend group, and I've been genuine besties with a couple of hot girls. But that doesn't mean I didn't go through very similar challenges with the opposite sex as most other men go through, and it doesn't mean I don't understand crippling anxiety/fear regarding the opposite sex, because I went through that as well.

[Joshe]

10 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

My Dad is an INTJ also and works with me *shudder* 

When I clash with him it is literally the immovable object meeting the unstoppable force. We only reconcile after stepping away, both of us going meta regarding the arguement and our own thinking, then re-approaching with either a new perspective or one of us becoming willing to toss theirs. Both of us are relentlessly persistent which can be great when applied to a permanent relationship (provided we can resolve conflict). I have become a lot better with resolution... But not necessarily lowering conflict 😅 

Lol, that must be interesting. I've actually never known any INTJs in real life. Sounds about right though, lol. Stubborn, immovable. Fierce independence of thought. 

10 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Needless to say I think it the Ni Ni clash can be a great avenue for growth

Me too 😆

Edited 2 minutes ago by Joshe