There is no way anybody is not calcium deficient if they don't chug milk w every meal

[Schizophonia]

8 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Lack of holism is to neglect any one part. Holism is not some magic catch-all single generalized summary solution. That's ironically called reductionism. Holism tells you every part matters for the whole. You can't neglect any one part. Calcium is an essential nutrient, essential for the whole of the body and mind.

Why calcium more than anything else It's not a more important nutrient than any other.

Focusing particularly on calcium means paying less attention to other nutrients.
 

And focusing on nutrients means neglecting intuition which is directly connected to the body's needs.

If you need calcium you'll crave dairy products, if you need choline you'll crave eggs etcetc whatever.

 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

Why calcium more than anything else It's not a more important nutrient than any other.

Focusing particularly on calcium means paying less attention to other nutrients.

I never said you should focus on calcium more than anything else. It's just that right now, we're focusing on calcium. Our focus is limited, even if we want to be holistic, we have to focus on things one at a time.

 

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

And focusing on nutrients means neglecting intuition which is directly connected to the body's needs.

And "focusing on" intuition means neglecting intellectual knowledge which means you're not holistic? That's not really how it works. Immediate focus is limited, but your focus can be more inclusive over time.

 

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

If you need calcium you'll crave dairy products, if you need choline you'll crave eggs etcetc whatever.

What if you have never eaten those things or you don't tend to eat those things, how would you crave them? How would you know whether you should eat them?

Edited 1 hour ago by Carl-Richard

[PsychedelicEagle]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

If you need calcium you'll crave dairy products

Def true for things like sodium and water, but I guess we can't assume this for Ca.

Mechanistically, Ca deficiency is silent: blood calcium drops make PTH rise, pulling Ca from bone, so there's no acute signal. The deficit usually shows up decades later as bone loss. Ca deficiency is a long-term problem, whereas Na deficiency kills in days.

Of course the signal could come from different ways and perhaps even from PTH, but notice the craving hypothesis is an assumption we can't take for granted. If that would be the case perhaps we'd have way less people with nutrient deficiency.

Also, notice that modern ultraprocessed foods completely hijack the sensing mechanisms so people can go decades consuming empty calories without adjusting for nutrient deficiency, so even if it exists it's a somewhat weak and vulnerable system.

Edited 2 hours ago by PsychedelicEagle

[Carl-Richard]

12 minutes ago, PsychedelicEagle said:

Def true for things like sodium and water, but I guess we can't assume this for Ca.

Mechanistically, Ca deficiency is silent: blood calcium drops make PTH rise, pulling Ca from bone, so there's no acute signal. The deficit usually shows up decades later as bone loss. Ca deficiency is a long-term problem, whereas Na deficiency kills in days.

I'm a sort of "body is intelligent" person: why can't PTH rise or bone deposit status be the signal (or of course more 'holistically' all the related bodily signals that occur when calcium intake is low)?

Edited 1 hour ago by Carl-Richard

[PsychedelicEagle]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'm a sort of "body is intelligent" person: why can't PTH rise or bone deposit status be the signal?

I def can; I'm just saying we don't know that for sure. When it comes to health, I prefer to not risk it on something that may or may not be reliable.

In my case for example I was deficient and not craving Ca-rich foods, so at least for me it's unreliable.

Edited 1 hour ago by PsychedelicEagle

[Schizophonia]

24 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I never said you should focus on calcium more than anything else. It's just that right now, we're focusing on calcium. Our focus is limited, even if we want to be holistic, we have to focus on things one at a time.
 

I disagree; for me to be holistic and as efficient as possible you have to stop shifting your attention to small things and keep it for much more powerful things.

24 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

And "focusing on" intuition means neglecting knowledge which means you're not holistic?

Science is reliable but limited, and the problem is that studies are not individualized. A nutrient can be good for most people but bad for you because of your genetics or current metabolism for whatever reason.

24 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

That's not really how it works. Immediate focus is limited, but your focus can be more inclusive over time.

 

What if you have never eaten those things or you don't tend to eat those things, how would you crave them? How would you know whether you should eat them?

It's a bit like psychedelics lol; when you start to feel high and see things in your imagination. Except instead of seeing scapist machines or weird stuff in general you'll think "oh hey, I could really eat that food" and you'll have visions of that food in your head. There is always one food that your brain remembers and has analyzed the composition of.

It's the same mechanism that drives people towards drugs since drugs are a way to force homeostasis.

 

If I really wanted calcium I would drink milk at least it has plenty of other nutrients in it.

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

I disagree; for me to be holistic and as efficient as possible you have to stop shifting your attention to small things and keep it for much more powerful things.

Small things in aggregate can be powerful. You're just looking for a pragmatic investment-cost-benefit equation, saving time for getting the 80%. You are my stepdad.

 

4 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Science is reliable but limited, and the problem is that studies are not individualized. A nutrient can be good for most people but bad for you because of your genetics or current metabolism for whatever reason.

Ok. You still want to test if that is true for calcium. So your focus will be on calcium for some time.

 

5 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

It's a bit like psychedelics lol; when you start to feel high and see things in your imagination. Except instead of seeing scapist machines or weird stuff in general you'll think "oh hey, I could really eat that food" and you'll have visions of that food in your head. There is always one food that your brain remembers and has analyzed the composition of.

It's the same mechanism that drives people towards drugs since drugs are a way to force homeostasis.

 

If I really wanted calcium I would drink milk at least it has plenty of other nutrients in it.

You're just ignoring the point I made, but ok. Or do you think you will actually start to have visions of milk if you're calcium-deficient if you have never drank milk? Like evolutionary psychic morphic resonance memory (your ancestors drank milk)?

[PsychedelicEagle]

The problem with milk is it's one of the youngest staples introduced in the human diet (only 8k years ago). It works well for some people but badly for others. It has to be individualized. It also has nutrients one may want to avoid, depending on their goals and nutrition philosophy. Leaving aside environmental issues.

I drank milk my entire life yet was diagnosed with osteopenia a decade ago (while still drinking it daily). One single food is not a guarantee.

Also, a modern Holstein cow produces 5–10x more milk than it normally would feeding a single cattle, making Ca supplementation required to keep the cow relatively healthy for modern milk production — the cow can't naturally get the amount of Ca required from diet alone. So you're either supplementing directly or indirecly; supplementing the cow requires 3x more Ca than supplementing the human.

Also, for curiosity: most Ca supplements come from limestone — most of it formed on the floors of ancient seas over tens to hundreds of millions of years — a chunk of it from seashells and bones of marine animals. So at the end of the day the Ca we drink or supplement is coming from these ancient sea creatures

Edited 1 hour ago by PsychedelicEagle